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/zellig/ - Ongezellig

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ZWABAG

File: 1734170295586-0.png (92.5 KB, 260x298, ClipboardImage.png)

File: 1734170295586-1.png (420.46 KB, 600x742, ClipboardImage.png)

 No.51442

After giving it a lot of thought, I've come to the conclusion that I don't think zellig really would have been all that good had it been fully realized. Bold words I know, but I read over the lore document, listened to the 'cord call from Massa ximself, the interview poster and coupled with the fact he's an oldfag who's been beaten down by (((foenkie))) and people who are on the "right side of history" to be less edgy, I think whatever idea we had of zellig in our mind, whether it was good or bad, was completely off the mark of what Massa had in mind ("No shit" I hear you thinking, but stick with me). To me zellig seemed like a it would have been a mostly comedy slice-of-life show with some interesting character studies of people who are "unsociable" in their own silly little ways that grow and develop, including our Autism-Denial-Disorder protagonist, but the way Massa's attitude towards expanding this show seems like it would have been more comedy focused than what we were initially presented. The constant reminder that "this is a foreign show with foreign stereotypes meant to exaggerate and mock for laughs" and not "these are characters who are humorous, but have a human side to them", feels like a miscommunication on their part given some of the somber moments Maya has when she's alone with herself. If Massa really wanted this to be an "all-comedy" show with Dutch stereotypes, do you really think he would have added those scenes and that melancholic ending at the end of Deel 6? And to be frank I don't know if some of the episode ideas would have worked. Yes they are nothing but napkin-written elevator pitches that would need to have been more fleshed out, but you would think an episode about Mymy meeting up with her biological sister again after years of not seeing eye to eye would have been treated with a little more tact given the situation, but instead Massa insists on this convoluted, straight up BRIMSTONE plan of having Mymy's sister become a K-POP e-boy poonerfaggot to date Maya in order to steal Mymy away back to Japan, somehow.
I know a lot of us Zaryans have some vague idea of what we want out of Ongezellig if it ever came to fruition, but personally after thinking it over, I do NOT like whatever Massa had in store if zellig ever actually got funded/greenlit by whoever and probably would have ended up disappointing us all given these ideas.
<REDDIT SPACE
This post is not meant to demoralize other Zaryans who still love zellig, if you do that's great and keyed and I'm still gonna post here and appreciate zellig myself, but I think it's time we realize that we have to forge our own gemstone series full of the funny, chuddy humor we like here that also has the heart zellig in order to make it better than what Massa could ever put out.
<wordswordswords Massa's vision for zellig sounds like it would have sucked ass in the end and zaryans should try to make their own Ongezellig show/comic full of heart and the keyed shit we like.
>inb4 "it's zoot demoralposting again"

 No.51444

>>51442
TLDR If ongezellig continued Maya would be trans, Mymy lesbian and Coco would have a black boyfriend

 No.51445

You came to the conclusion we all did, it's not necessarily bad that Ongezellig is never getting continued, it's what we make of it that counts.

 No.51446

>>51442
Zaryans are already making their own Mayamails, so we are already winning. Once it's finished every demoralizer will have no other option than to ACK himself

 No.51451

wow…I guess us Zaryans would have to band together and pretty continue the show ourselves. It seems ambitious but if it really is the case then I would support it regardless.

 No.51491

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>>51442
Exactly. the massa of 7-8 years ago is not with us anymore.
Do you ever really notice the dialogue of deel 1-2? schoolocaust, untermensch, hitler, etc. massa was so unbothered that he could just write a love letter to 4chan, introduce an intimate creative universe, and be passionate about continuing it at the same time. massa is very talented and smart, he knew exactly what he was doing and he was unashamed about it. A few years later, probably as a combination of growing up a bit, distancing himself from nu4chan, hiring animators, outsourcing more of his project to other people, and really thinking about how his show may not be picked up solely because of the unproducable (AKA too "chuddy") introduction that is deel 1-2, he starts revisioncucking.
By deel 5, massa greenlights the "belgian congo genocide" scene to virtue signal to future producers that
>Hey look! My characters aren't actually all spawned from 4chan archetypes and Dutch country allegories but are actually… le not racist at all! produce my show produce my show produce my show
LEGITIMATELY, IT FEELS LIKE BY SOME POINT IN DEEL 3, THAT MASSA'S CREATIVE VISION STARTED TO FADE AWAY FROM HIM. WHEN HE STOPPED ANIMATING IN FULL, THE SHOW WAS NO LONGER HIS!
Poor Massa, though, was probably fueled by fear as a middle aged man working a full time job in an era of cancel culture to seriously think about what he was doing. All this, for an imageboard that wasn't the same, about a cartoon universe that would become distant from him in spirit and soul, in the face of a growing liberalcuck world where he could lose his job and livelihood because of a public animation he made.
It just wasn't worth it to him, so he wrapped it up, and threw it all away.

 No.51493

>>51491
Many people tend to forget that Massa was a brony, and guess where bronies came from. Coupled with his dutch nationalist, he wasn't too different from us. A sad tale in a world already full of ones.

 No.51495

>>51491
What could have been…this just shows how important us Zaryans our to the community. We are the only ones who make GEMMY zellig media.

I think it is our duty to continue the show in collaboration with our talented pool of animators. We can be a testament to other fanbases when it comes to loyalty and dedication. ZWABAG

 No.51911

File: 1734305684639.png (356.89 KB, 977x797, MassaChud.png)

>>51442
there was always this notion that once lig gets picked up, it will become sort of troonslop. what you've just said is not something new.

However, what I will add to this thread is that a lot of 'oyteen oldfags at the time (by "time" i mean before lig got officially cancelled) still looked forward to the show getting a producer. I remember when new content was dropped, people would immediately start to make up (or expand on already existing) headcannons. It was funny to theorise how Maya escaped Japan because she was somehow connected to the two bombs or to overexaggerate on the topic of the murder of Coco's parents by talented african entrepreneurs. The show getting picked would just mean a far more expanded soyteen zellig cannon which is le good.

Some people (goofy ahh newfags) think that Massa was somehow le "based" and was eventually influenced by his progressive co-workers (basically blame the boyars, not the tsar) and that the chuddy headcannon (or the more "sane" parts of it) was actually the original intend. This is silly. The guy was a goofy goober, but he was never Hitler's top and the show was not supposed to be overly edgy.

>This post is not meant to demoralize other Zaryans
>>inb4 "it's zoot demoralposting again"
obsessed

 No.51919

>>51911
>he was a goofer goober, not hitler's top guy
>the show was not supposed to be overly edgy
This is a guy who has a confederate flag irl and posted about old comics making fun of niggers.
I'm not saying the show would have turned out to be as extreme and chuddy here with TND and Blacksuns everywhere, but by the time Deel 5-6 dropped you get the feeling he was reeling it back a bit with that scene of Coco being shocked and appalled by colonizers in Indonesia; compared to the first two Deels mentioning things like Hitler, incest, slavery, american school shooting, etc.
He also felt like he had to mention that Mymy is NOT a nazi, she just hates Belgium and loves all niggers and troons equally. You can say he probably wasn't as edgy as us sure, but there's no doubt time and social pressure from his progressive peers made him less open to be as raunchy and brazen, coupled with his only job that pays his bills.

 No.51920

>>51919
I read this thing from somewhere else before
I think from the zellig kiwi thread

 No.51930

>>51919
>This is a guy who has a confederate flag irl
that’s because he’s a historyfag, plus he’s Dutch so owning that flag has different connotations.
>with that scene of Coco being shocked and appalled by colonizers in Indonesia
she was also shocked when Maya said Hitler was her favorite painter. it’s in character. do you expect her not to be shocked by the atrocities the Belgians committed? it’d be more out of character for her not to be.
>the first two Deels mentioning things like Hitler, incest, slavery, american school shooting, etc.
that’s just because the first deels were more comedic.
>He also felt like he had to mention that Mymy is NOT a nazi
he did that in the same document where he said that the series is canceled and is never coming back. why would he feel the need to cater the series to a less edgy audience if he has no plans of continuing it?
>social pressure from his progressive peers made him less open to be as raunchy and brazen
he’s known a lot of those people since before Ongezellig was even created.

this is all without mentioning the fact that his old comics frequently had lesbian main characters and jabs at Christianity. Massa was never heavily rightwinged or edgy.

 No.51931

>>51930
Hi Foenkie

 No.51932

File: 1734311148496-0.png (3.53 MB, 2558x1558, (2020-05) MymyZedong.png)

File: 1734311148496-1.png (3.04 MB, 3074x1654, zellig_if_kuz_knew_eng;ish.png)

>>51919


>compared to the first two Deels mentioning things like Hitler, incest, slavery, american school shooting, etc.
<deel 4 concertation camp joke


I dont see why there has to be an edgy joke every two seconds (when there does not need to be)? The six deels are supposed to be one 20ish minutes long episode. Having such jokes in overabundance in each deel would mean the jokes getting stale by the time you are half done with the episode.

>He also felt like he had to mention that Mymy is NOT a nazi
in the show, she was shown to be xenophobic, nationalistic and primarily hungry for power (she sort of played the role of Cartman), thats it. Her being obsessed niggers and troons was 99% chud headcannon. The closest you got was the other characters calling her racist (as if normies wont call you a racist for literally anything these days; her "racist" presentation was on belgiums).

>with that scene of Coco being shocked and appalled by colonizers in Indonesia (dont you mean the congo?)
<Coco being mindbroken by the mention of Hitler in the first deel.
She is supposed to be a "dumb" blondie (sort of), not a based boer. I dont see why it would be out of her character to act like she did in deel 4.

>This is a guy who has a confederate flag irl and posted about old comics making fun of niggers.
Guess what? He is also known for making sonic hentai reviews and was a brony (lig's art style has inpirations from mlp). The guy was "normal" with typical edgy humor. Also, Foenkie is an old friend of his iirc, not somebody he knew after he made the first two deels. 2x also, he could have recruited "neutral" and "nonprogressive" people to, for example, moderate his cord. He did not AND was alright with having valid queens.



Overall, the show was not meant to be chuddy. Not everything has to be chuddy. I doubt that there was gonna be an episode about Kiki finding her lost HRT pills.

 No.51933

>>51930
>this is all without mentioning the fact that his old comics frequently had lesbian main characters
Holy MEDS, Mayo and Curry were NOT eating each others' carpets together.
>but Casiasos
Yeah which was *A* short webcomic series that lasted even less than Mayo and Curry did and nobody (outside of the most dedicated Massa fans) even cares about.

 No.51934

ITT: Massadownie mods and /co/ons

 No.51935

>>51442
Massa changed as time went on, but I doubt he had many concrete ideas for Ongezellig to begin with. If we take the Q&A at face value, it becomes clear that he was never capable of properly pitching and planning the show. He had years to work on it, yet he never made rough season outlines or character arcs or anything else. Combine this with him admitting to having aged out of Ongezellig, and the evidence is clear. He was a historyfag who tried to be an artfag and failed at it. The material shown in the document looks like he gave up on brainstorming after a year or two.
>having Mymy's sister become a K-POP e-boy poonerfaggot
Marge, didn't the Q&A only say she would fake being her friend?
>>51930
>Massa was never heavily rightwinged or edgy
Marge, didn't he admit in the Q&A that the sisters are based on him and things he grew out of?

 No.51958

Just some extra thoughts.
The case that Mymy is indeed racist is pretty clear to me.
Firstly, she calls people untermensch, believing in racial superiority and inferiority is the foundational belief in racism.
Secondly, Vera calls Mymy racist meaning that mymy is consistently racist in history class making it note worthy for Vera to say and it's not just a one time thing said when covering the Belgian uprising, which is not that much in the Dutch history curriculum. In my experience it was one lesson when discussing nationalism in the 19th century. Her racism then has to be clear in more topics than just Belgium for Vera to note her a racist.
Addressing the counter argument
>it's just humor, nothing to take seriously
Ongezellig is primarily a comedy, and with that mindset you limit the exploration of the show. For the same case Maya's porn addiction could be written off as a joke for example.
Just reducing the characterization of Ongezellig to just being jokes guts any depth Ongezellig has.
Mymy is racist, however that does not mean she has to be a TND fanatic, there are many types and expressions of racism.
tldr; Mymy is racist.

 No.52006

>>51958
>Firstly, she calls people untermensch, believing in racial superiority and inferiority is the foundational belief in racism.

Another chud headcannon. "Untermensch" is another example of Mymy being power hungry and viewing everybody else as inferior. Are first year students all niggers automatically, since she wanted them to be slaves? Is Mymy's class full of niggers and what not (there's only one)?

>Secondly, Vera calls Mymy racist meaning that mymy is consistently racist in history class making it note worthy for Vera to say and it's not just a one time thing said when covering the Belgian uprising

Nigga, why would they call Mymy's presentation on BELGIUMS ( who are also apparently niggers) racist in the first place???? It would more make sense that they are calling her that out of missuse of a term (the "you say something i don't like => you are racist" type of mentality).

TL;DR Mymy is xenophobic and a megalomaniac. Like fr no cap, dont mix the chud headcannon with the actual lore.

 No.52186

Nice strawmanburger you got there with a side or rhetorical question fries.
Vera doesn't call the presentation racist, she says it isn't Mymy's because she knows typical Mymy behavior, le racism. It happens commonly enough for Vera to make note of it and bring it up.
From a narration perspective, when the narrator suggests to the audiance 3 times in the span of 25 minutes that a character is racist, you best believe they are racist. Mymy being racist is the clearists and most obvious answer or however the razor is occammed.
The thing is you need to extrapolate and generalize the characterization and themes to a broader context.
sage because this discussion is not worth bumping

 No.52200

>>52186
>From a narration perspective, when the narrator suggests to the audiance 3 times in the span of 25 minutes that a character is racist, you best believe they are racist.
when i first watched Ongezellig, my impression wasn’t that Mymy was racist, but that she was just insensitive and too dumb to realize it. i always thought labeling Mymy as a racist was a misunderstanding of her character, even before Foenkie (and later Massa himself) confirmed that she wasn’t.

 No.52251

File: 1734400829293.png (3.19 MB, 3062x1718, (2020-07) Propaganda.png)

>>52186
>Nice strawmanburger you got there with a side or rhetorical question fries.
Alright then, here is what we know based on the moments when Mymy is on screen:

1+2 deel

>During her RP session, Mymy captures Maya (the mixed to oblivion raced individual) and threatens her to be executed (later changed to be send to the rice fields, for attempted seduction on her sister).
<The reason is that Maya apparently plays the role of a deserter, nothing about her being shitskined.
<Maya is called a BELGIUM barbarian at most.

>During her talk about the presentation with Maya, she says that she can finally be a class representative. Or in other words: "rule over the untermenschen" (aka having more power then her other classmates)
<99% of the students are dutch/white. "Untermenschen" is not used in a racial way in this context.

>Mymy presents her presentation to Vera. Mymy mentions slavery
<She wants to reintroduce slavery and use first year students as a source for free manpower. (unless there is a HUGE migrant crisis in the lig universe, i doubt that a majority of the students are from africa or anywhere else but Holland)
<She also uses Mao Zedong version of herself as a pic for the presentation (prob a metajoke but still worth mentioning)

3 deel

>Vera calls Mymy out for her being from Japan
<Not sure if this is relevant to the topic. The most we can tell is that Mymy thinks of herself as dutch and not japanese (or she just doesnt want people to know that she comes from japan, but she still considers herself to be a culturally dutch chink).

4 deel

>Mymy calls Maya an autist
<She only makes fun of Maya's "ADD problem". Does not connected it to Maya being a shitskin (the most that happens is a concentration joke about Maya's… lack of concentration).

5 deel

>Coco reviews Mymy's presentation on Belgium. Coco calls it "racist".
<Mymy is confused (and rightfully so) because belgiums are not a race, from her perspective, since she would consider herself dutch, remember? (The dutch and the belgiums are both part of the EUROPEAN/WHITE race, unless we are talking about the 18th/19th century usage of the term "race" when race=ethnicity. It woudnt make sense to call Mymy a "racist" for talking shit about a group in the same race as her).

>Mymy has a negative look at the force publiqe congo situation
<NOOOOO THAT'S JUST MASSA BEING A VALID TRANS QUEEN FROM ALL THE HRT PILLS GIVEN BY FOENKIE AND FRIENDS!!1!
<besides this, we learn that Mymy does not support racial/ethnic/tribal brutality/shitshows.

6 deel

>Vera says that the Maya's presentation sounds like something Mymy would say, but its not "racist" so Maya prob made it
<Ignoring all of the other deels, it would make sense that Vera's comment would then mean that Mymy is the princess of Agartha.
<HOWEVER, seeing the rest of the deels, Vera calling Mymy a "person who writes racist stuff" has the same weight as your local tranny calling you a nazi/fascist, because you have a different opinion.

<There is no other evidence that Mymy has acted like a racist. Vera/Coco saying Mymy is racist is not enough. The other deels shows us a different picture (her being xenophobic and megalomaniac). Saying that she woudnt be called a racist for no reason would be based on speculation, nothing more.

Overall, this is stupid. Oldfags made a funny chud head canon out of an interesting dutch show, newfags took the "Funny Dutch TND girls show" joke at face value. No wonder the community is so underdeveloped by this point.

 No.52252

File: 1734401682012.jpg (42.67 KB, 600x600, SNCAaward.jpg)

>>51958
>>52006
>>52186
>>52251

 No.52270

Mymy's mannerisms and the narrator clearly communicate to the audiance that she is a bit racist.
When I first watched ongezellig I saw Mymy as a mild casual racist, of course she isn't TND supporting extreme racist in the canon, but she definitely is a little.

 No.52272

>>52271
I sage because this is snca, no one else needs to be bothered

 No.52292

>>52270
>clearly communicate to the audiance that she is a bit racist
>eventho >>52251
>xenophobia - dislike of or prejudice against people from other countries

>>52272
>>52252
>snca eventho i care

 No.52293

>>52251
She's racist because I am racist and she is my wife

 No.52294

>>52293
I kneel, you've won the debate


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