SPEAKER_04 00:00:00:000 - 00:00:38:679 Being powerful. Because I'm getting a ton of DMs. From people who think exactly like me. I'm getting a ton of pings coming in. From like, folder guys. People from other servers. Mutuals. And ultimately it's literally just. It's just a Discord server. Yeah. We're so busy with this here. And I still don't understand why this is even happening. And why we're even dealing with this. And can I tell you something? I'm pretty sure Mast had to think for himself. Yeah, probably. SPEAKER_02 00:00:39:820 - 00:00:40:679 Mast doesn't take it SPEAKER_04 00:00:40:679 - 00:00:42:280 seriously. Wait, that's my question. SPEAKER_02 00:00:42:399 - 00:00:43:380 Do you agree with him on this? SPEAKER_04 00:00:44:159 - 00:00:46:039 That he doesn't take it seriously? SPEAKER_02 00:00:46:039 - 00:00:47:880 Yeah, do you agree with him on this. SPEAKER_04 00:00:47:880 - 00:00:48:880 Yes or no? SPEAKER_02 00:00:48:880 - 00:00:54:320 Yes. From the beginning, he hardly had, what do you call it? SPEAKER_04 00:00:54:320 - 00:01:00:520 No, but do you also agree with him that he thinks this is autistic? Yeah, of course. SPEAKER_02 00:01:00:520 - 00:01:06:000 But the fact that the server is now closed is because other people started spamming. SPEAKER_04 00:01:06:000 - 00:01:08:000 So you think you're autistic? SPEAKER_02 00:01:08:000 - 00:01:09:000 Why? SPEAKER_04 00:01:10:000 - 00:01:12:000 Isn't everyone here autistic? SPEAKER_02 00:01:12:000 - 00:01:14:000 Everyone here is autistic. SPEAKER_07 00:01:15:000 - 00:01:18:000 I swear to you. I swear to you. SPEAKER_04 00:01:19:000 - 00:01:34:060 I'm going... If I were the server owner, right, I wouldn't put myself in such a bad position as I could do now. I'd immediately think, what is this? And I'd immediately do all this, really. But I'm not the server owner. SPEAKER_07 00:01:34:180 - 00:01:35:840 And I do care a bit about this community. SPEAKER_08 00:01:38:420 - 00:01:39:040 Me too. SPEAKER_04 00:01:39:939 - 00:01:45:939 We've reached a point where people who think they're so autistic don't find themselves as autistic as this. SPEAKER_07 00:01:46:939 - 00:01:50:340 I never thought this would literally just be the point, man. SPEAKER_04 00:01:50:700 - 00:01:57:260 I've received a request from someone who means a lot to me, SPEAKER_07 00:01:57:260 - 00:02:02:840 for Daar Gebeurt, former owner of the SQL Tech server, to have his say on this. SPEAKER_04 00:02:03:319 - 00:02:04:079 Is that okay with you guys? SPEAKER_02 00:02:04:319 - 00:02:06:079 What does he know about the situation? SPEAKER_04 00:02:06:900 - 00:02:09:319 No, no, no. SPEAKER_02 00:02:09:400 - 00:02:11:879 I don't give a SPEAKER_00 00:02:11:879 - 00:02:13:500 fuck about how the server now SPEAKER_03 00:02:13:500 - 00:02:15:520 what's happening now. Is that interesting? SPEAKER_02 00:02:15:680 - 00:02:16:979 I haven't heard anything about it. SPEAKER_03 00:02:17:120 - 00:02:18:719 Dago, please. SPEAKER_07 00:02:20:879 - 00:02:21:280 Mike? SPEAKER_04 00:02:22:740 - 00:02:23:099 Yes? SPEAKER_03 00:02:23:099 - 00:02:24:719 Do you know what I literally told you two weeks SPEAKER_04 00:02:24:719 - 00:02:25:539 ago? SPEAKER_07 00:02:27:539 - 00:02:28:919 When we were in the mod call? SPEAKER_04 00:02:29:680 - 00:02:33:740 Bring in Dagen or Paard. Let's hear what they think about this. SPEAKER_00 00:02:34:080 - 00:02:34:620 Yeah, I'll do that. SPEAKER_07 00:02:35:199 - 00:02:36:379 Because they have nothing to do with this. SPEAKER_00 00:02:36:439 - 00:02:37:939 You did say that, man! SPEAKER_07 00:02:39:240 - 00:02:40:639 You did say that. SPEAKER_04 00:02:40:719 - 00:02:41:400 No, not at all. SPEAKER_00 00:02:41:759 - 00:02:43:879 Yeah, but now you've told your side of the story. SPEAKER_06 00:02:43:960 - 00:02:44:780 Do you think that's fair? SPEAKER_04 00:02:45:599 - 00:02:46:000 Listen, SPEAKER_06 00:02:47:860 - 00:02:49:879 I also have, I haven't caught up with everything about how it behind the SPEAKER_03 00:02:49:879 - 00:02:51:979 scenes played out, I'm not for that. SPEAKER_04 00:02:52:539 - 00:02:53:539 I do know that SPEAKER_03 00:02:53:539 - 00:02:55:900 in the Heroes DM group of SPEAKER_06 00:02:55:900 - 00:02:58:020 Massal Circle Tech, some things happened there SPEAKER_03 00:02:58:020 - 00:03:18:360 and I've even heard some shit now that I really have to question. It's not even about how everything went down, but more about how you're handling this. At some point, you make the point that you do 90% of the moderation work on the server, you take it all away from everyone, but you don't call yourself ultimately responsible. What's the logic behind that exactly? SPEAKER_06 00:03:18:400 - 00:03:20:199 Thank you! Oh my god, I've been saying SPEAKER_03 00:03:20:199 - 00:03:21:879 that for the past three hours! SPEAKER_04 00:03:23:419 - 00:03:23:819 What did I say? SPEAKER_06 00:03:24:680 - 00:03:28:759 Nobody had enough time to listen to everything that was sent regarding that voice thing. SPEAKER_04 00:03:29:159 - 00:03:30:439 No, no, no. I haven't done that yet. SPEAKER_06 00:03:30:520 - 00:03:31:439 The end becomes beautiful. SPEAKER_04 00:03:32:379 - 00:03:35:939 Because everything being said now, all the questions you've dealt with, SPEAKER_06 00:03:36:219 - 00:03:41:159 everything is now being made very clear in that whole recording. SPEAKER_04 00:03:42:439 - 00:03:45:740 With me ultimately asking Mike, among other things. SPEAKER_03 00:03:46:300 - 00:03:47:460 Why do you want to. SPEAKER_04 00:03:47:580 - 00:03:51:819 Shift your responsibility. But you want to have the responsibility. SPEAKER_08 00:03:52:500 - 00:03:53:520 Why is it so. SPEAKER_04 00:03:53:599 - 00:04:02:280 That when the mods do their job. You're ultimately not happy. While you've set the policy yourself. You don't involve the mods. SPEAKER_03 00:04:02:560 - 00:04:03:780 In your policy. SPEAKER_04 00:04:04:000 - 00:04:16:360 Give no input. Literally. You impose this on mods and they listen mods see that it doesn't work, mods decide hey, we might be able to improve this you ignore it, it goes with Joeri in private SPEAKER_07 00:04:16:360 - 00:04:19:040 or with me SPEAKER_04 00:04:19:040 - 00:04:24:860 and now you're surprised that all this is happening well, I SPEAKER_03 00:04:24:860 - 00:04:32:540 can maybe... To sketch a situation... This doesn't really have to do with Macedonia... But I moderate in a similar situation myself. SPEAKER_08 00:04:32:660 - 00:04:34:139 I'm an admin... SPEAKER_03 00:04:34:139 - 00:05:18:160 No, not just on Segeltal. I'm an admin on a Discord server of a YouTuber. And that's about the same kind of situation. He doesn't want to have much to do with moderation... Because he simply doesn't have time for it. And that's a legit argument. And I can also remember quite well that I once discussed something like this in DM with Mike, that if Sam doesn't want to take responsibility, then you guys get that responsibility, but then he shouldn't interfere with it either. I said that once and I think that's also a bit how you should handle that kind of shit. But what's happening now, especially this call, I understand that an explanation is needed, I understand that a statement is needed for everything, but at the moment it's like throwing people under the bus without context, while nothing really becomes clearer. But can I also say something SPEAKER_05 00:05:18:160 - 00:05:24:459 say, because the only explanation I've heard is actually someone who feels like the victim at the moment. SPEAKER_07 00:05:24:779 - 00:05:25:360 Yes, that's the only explanation that feels like playing the victim card right now. Yes. SPEAKER_05 00:05:28:759 - 00:05:29:699 That's the only explanation given, if I'm being honest. SPEAKER_07 00:05:34:220 - 00:05:34:860 But guys, why do you think I haven't muted you? SPEAKER_05 00:05:35:199 - 00:05:35:420 You know it. SPEAKER_04 00:05:36:879 - 00:05:36:980 But here's the reason. SPEAKER_01 00:05:37:920 - 00:05:41:079 This is where we... Should you have a golden button for not muting us? SPEAKER_07 00:05:41:519 - 00:05:41:959 No. SPEAKER_04 00:05:41:959 - 00:05:42:360 No. SPEAKER_01 00:05:43:800 - 00:05:45:680 Oh, that's not what he means. SPEAKER_04 00:05:46:379 - 00:05:47:480 He means more that there are SPEAKER_05 00:05:47:480 - 00:05:49:399 some people who aren't voice SPEAKER_00 00:05:49:399 - 00:05:52:060 autistically screaming through a mic and that a discussion is SPEAKER_03 00:05:52:060 - 00:05:53:660 possible. That's more what he means, I think. SPEAKER_00 00:05:53:980 - 00:05:55:439 I mean, I'm a crucial SPEAKER_05 00:05:55:439 - 00:05:57:779 hold this. I want an explanation for that too. SPEAKER_03 00:05:58:220 - 00:05:59:839 Why was Merel removed from our mod chat? SPEAKER_00 00:06:00:240 - 00:06:01:459 Yeah, why am I gone from there? SPEAKER_05 00:06:01:579 - 00:06:03:980 The moment you start a conversation with Robin SPEAKER_00 00:06:03:980 - 00:06:08:300 and you know I agree with Robin, I'm removed from that chat. SPEAKER_05 00:06:08:600 - 00:06:10:639 Because I was literally in there this afternoon. SPEAKER_00 00:06:10:899 - 00:06:12:399 What an autistic jerk. SPEAKER_05 00:06:12:759 - 00:06:14:160 I want to respond to this. SPEAKER_04 00:06:14:439 - 00:06:15:899 I want to respond to this. SPEAKER_05 00:06:16:839 - 00:06:21:199 Hold on, because I find it really shitty to hear behind my back, SPEAKER_04 00:06:21:699 - 00:06:25:939 that yeah, Mike feels really sorry for himself, because Sam has set the dogs on them. SPEAKER_05 00:06:26:060 - 00:06:27:800 Merel and Robin. And then I think to myself, SPEAKER_03 00:06:27:860 - 00:06:30:079 how can you talk about it like that? SPEAKER_05 00:06:30:560 - 00:06:31:779 What the fuck are you talking about? SPEAKER_02 00:06:31:939 - 00:06:33:639 I feel like behind my back SPEAKER_05 00:06:33:639 - 00:06:35:540 half of it is just being made up about me. SPEAKER_02 00:06:35:980 - 00:06:37:939 No, a lot of the guys have the idea SPEAKER_05 00:06:37:939 - 00:06:39:939 that the dogs from Sam, SPEAKER_02 00:06:40:300 - 00:06:42:019 me and Merel, literal SPEAKER_05 00:06:42:019 - 00:06:44:160 definition of the dogs, have been set SPEAKER_02 00:06:44:160 - 00:06:45:579 on you. That's ridiculous. SPEAKER_05 00:06:46:139 - 00:06:47:019 I have nothing to do with this. SPEAKER_02 00:06:47:019 - 00:06:48:740 This is the first I'm hearing of this. SPEAKER_06 00:06:48:800 - 00:06:49:959 I have nothing to do with this. SPEAKER_02 00:06:50:139 - 00:06:50:740 I swear. SPEAKER_06 00:06:51:079 - 00:06:52:360 Where does it come from then, Mike? SPEAKER_02 00:06:52:360 - 00:06:56:100 I have from people who clearly hate me. SPEAKER_06 00:06:56:300 - 00:06:58:939 And then you can also explain why you removed Merel from that mod chat. SPEAKER_02 00:06:58:959 - 00:07:02:079 Yes, I certainly want to do that. There is namely... SPEAKER_06 00:07:02:079 - 00:07:05:939 I keep that leak very clear something from mod jet SPEAKER_02 00:07:05:939 - 00:07:15:680 special no I had something like okay this is another leak I'm going to try to rule out who it is and since more SPEAKER_05 00:07:15:680 - 00:07:21:680 works on the sport no but I wanted to check SPEAKER_02 00:07:22:500 - 00:07:27:560 I'm very funny saying these are also things you need to discuss Mike SPEAKER_06 00:07:27:560 - 00:07:28:500 But you don't do that SPEAKER_04 00:07:28:500 - 00:07:30:920 Mike, you trust Merel SPEAKER_06 00:07:30:920 - 00:07:33:860 Look, you don't remove Merel SPEAKER_04 00:07:33:860 - 00:07:34:699 From the mod SPEAKER_02 00:07:34:699 - 00:07:36:800 She's not a moderator SPEAKER_05 00:07:36:800 - 00:07:39:079 That doesn't matter SPEAKER_02 00:07:39:079 - 00:07:41:060 I still have things to bring up SPEAKER_04 00:07:41:060 - 00:07:42:600 Because the moment I SPEAKER_02 00:07:42:600 - 00:07:44:240 Get involved in something Mike SPEAKER_04 00:07:44:240 - 00:07:50:660 By you, in anything whatsoever I have the right to bring something up, because the moment I get involved in something, Mike, by you, in anything whatsoever, I have the right to say something about myself. You get it? SPEAKER_05 00:07:52:819 - 00:07:53:939 If you wanted to kick her out SPEAKER_08 00:07:53:939 - 00:07:56:060 because she's not a mod, fine. SPEAKER_04 00:07:56:300 - 00:07:57:560 But then you should have said that. SPEAKER_08 00:07:58:139 - 00:08:00:379 The point is more. SPEAKER_06 00:08:00:439 - 00:08:01:819 Why didn't you do that, let me go months ago. SPEAKER_04 00:08:01:939 - 00:08:03:959 Because you were, like, a month ago SPEAKER_06 00:08:03:959 - 00:08:05:699 on December 28th angry, SPEAKER_04 00:08:06:019 - 00:08:42:120 because they took my phone and started talking on my phone, and on her own account in the mod chat she was spamming a bit with stupid nonsense, you know. You didn't remove her then. Why now? While she hasn't said anything. Because she's not a mod? Why didn't you realize for a whole month, suddenly for a month, oh wait, she's not a mod, let me remove her now. At this moment, very coincidentally, because I happen to not be here today, Robin can't back up whatever argument she has. You remove Merel? Because it's not at all SPEAKER_05 00:08:42:120 - 00:08:45:259 that I want to bash you, Mike, and you know that damn well. SPEAKER_06 00:08:46:100 - 00:08:49:220 But I do find it... My arguments don't come out of nowhere. And I've only for three hours... SPEAKER_05 00:08:49:220 - 00:08:57:240 It's a bit weird that I'm removed out of nowhere... ...for the fact that I'm not doing anything. You know? And you don't communicate that. SPEAKER_06 00:08:58:700 - 00:09:01:519 I'm having a normal conversation with people. SPEAKER_05 00:09:01:779 - 00:09:05:820 But now I just feel like you don't have any balls and SPEAKER_06 00:09:05:820 - 00:09:12:600 therefore removed me from something because you don't want to hear what I have to say or that I group SPEAKER_08 00:09:12:600 - 00:09:22:679 I can deal with things that have happened robin yes the reason I temporarily put people out of the mod channel SPEAKER_06 00:09:22:679 - 00:09:25:620 was because we have a leak no I understand what you mean SPEAKER_08 00:09:25:620 - 00:09:31:759 me but you were the leak why didn't you with a leak not I eventually SPEAKER_06 00:09:31:759 - 00:09:37:820 boy made mod I wasn't leaking to wood well then you made yourself mod buddies let SPEAKER_05 00:09:37:820 - 00:09:47:620 ping etc buddies let ping I didn't do I made a mod I was gone this all for itself we all did things wrong SPEAKER_02 00:09:47:620 - 00:09:52:720 it's all so fucking 3 yes it's indeed all very trivial SPEAKER_05 00:09:52:720 - 00:09:55:419 mike it's so honest of you to now say yes how one has done this SPEAKER_02 00:09:55:419 - 00:10:00:879 wrong then it's wrong that's all fine SPEAKER_06 00:10:00:879 - 00:10:25:200 according to you I would I would be honest with everyone for a moment And then he didn't do it. Say that everyone listens to your policy. If I hadn't input... If I hadn't said anything to the masses of... SPEAKER_02 00:10:25:200 - 00:10:28:399 Don't go along with this, because this is just stupid... SPEAKER_06 00:10:28:399 - 00:10:30:120 Then he would have made that statement... SPEAKER_02 00:10:30:120 - 00:10:31:480 Then we wouldn't be sitting here. SPEAKER_06 00:10:32:240 - 00:10:33:879 The reason it's actually good that we're sitting here... SPEAKER_02 00:10:33:879 - 00:10:36:179 Is because you need to account for yourself for once. SPEAKER_08 00:10:36:820 - 00:10:38:240 You need to say what you've done wrong. SPEAKER_00 00:10:38:379 - 00:10:39:759 And actually just... SPEAKER_08 00:10:39:759 - 00:10:42:879 Go offer your apology to the rest of this server. SPEAKER_03 00:10:43:360 - 00:10:44:600 And to the mods primarily. SPEAKER_06 00:10:45:399 - 00:10:47:679 Do you know how shitty you've treated your mods? SPEAKER_03 00:10:48:139 - 00:10:50:220 I'm telling you, if I agreed with your policy, SPEAKER_06 00:10:51:620 - 00:10:56:340 if there wasn't an admin who was currently against your policy, SPEAKER_03 00:10:57:340 - 00:10:59:840 then this server would generally just be a shitfest, really. SPEAKER_06 00:11:00:779 - 00:11:02:259 I don't agree with that. SPEAKER_03 00:11:02:980 - 00:11:05:159 I'm not at all surprised that we're getting raids. I'm not at all surprised that we're getting raids. SPEAKER_06 00:11:05:259 - 00:11:09:320 I'm not at all surprised that the atmosphere is toxic as fuck. SPEAKER_03 00:11:10:139 - 00:11:11:360 It's really just... SPEAKER_06 00:11:11:360 - 00:11:14:259 It's like obvious that this happens. SPEAKER_03 00:11:15:440 - 00:11:16:039 Why... SPEAKER_06 00:11:16:039 - 00:11:16:740 May I? SPEAKER_04 00:11:17:919 - 00:11:18:320 May I? SPEAKER_07 00:11:20:440 - 00:11:20:679 Yes? SPEAKER_04 00:11:20:879 - 00:11:21:000 Yes. SPEAKER_07 00:11:21:639 - 00:11:22:120 Okay. SPEAKER_04 00:11:22:779 - 00:11:23:740 Yes? Okay. SPEAKER_07 00:11:33:659 - 00:11:35:200 Do you think that on even one server above the number of members we're going to have, what we have now, SPEAKER_04 00:11:41:580 - 00:11:42:080 do you think there's a people's republic where 1500 people can yell at an admin whatever they want, SPEAKER_07 00:11:48:879 - 00:11:57:220 and while those admins also have to execute people from above where they constantly have a knife held over them no sorry boy just look you just pulled the number card and that's the dumbest SPEAKER_04 00:11:57:220 - 00:12:01:539 card you can pull in this situation because it doesn't matter if you have 1500 people in this SPEAKER_07 00:12:01:539 - 00:12:06:000 situation or three people in this situation you can have three people in this situation, you can't say, all in all, SPEAKER_02 00:12:06:139 - 00:12:08:120 this is what I want to do. Because it was SPEAKER_07 00:12:08:120 - 00:12:09:360 just said that, if SPEAKER_02 00:12:09:360 - 00:12:12:379 someone spoke to you in your way, it becomes a garbage dump. SPEAKER_07 00:12:12:879 - 00:12:13:899 And you said, that's not true. SPEAKER_02 00:12:14:159 - 00:12:16:080 It is true. It's not necessarily against you, it's SPEAKER_00 00:12:16:080 - 00:12:17:820 just common knowledge. If you have a team, SPEAKER_02 00:12:17:860 - 00:12:19:860 where one person does everything, it becomes a SPEAKER_03 00:12:19:860 - 00:12:22:100 trashfest, because at some point he's going to overreact to what SPEAKER_02 00:12:22:100 - 00:12:24:080 happens. Why are you saying yes now? SPEAKER_00 00:12:24:399 - 00:12:26:200 You choose to take someone from peak. SPEAKER_02 00:12:26:220 - 00:12:28:139 I didn't choose SPEAKER_00 00:12:28:139 - 00:12:29:600 to do everything alone. SPEAKER_03 00:12:29:860 - 00:12:30:620 Can I just say that? SPEAKER_00 00:12:31:440 - 00:12:33:799 If someone else proposes something, SPEAKER_08 00:12:33:879 - 00:12:35:659 it's not allowed. And if you propose it, SPEAKER_06 00:12:35:759 - 00:12:36:960 then others have to solve it for you. SPEAKER_02 00:12:37:200 - 00:12:38:419 It can get much worse. SPEAKER_06 00:12:38:779 - 00:12:40:940 It can get much worse. SPEAKER_02 00:12:41:259 - 00:12:43:940 Because the thing is here, Mike wants to do everything himself, SPEAKER_06 00:12:44:120 - 00:12:45:620 but doesn't want to take responsibility for it. SPEAKER_04 00:12:45:639 - 00:12:45:960 Exactly. SPEAKER_06 00:12:46:200 - 00:12:48:419 And that's the whole problem here Mike. You know that. SPEAKER_04 00:12:48:559 - 00:12:50:519 I haven't had that accountability from the beginning. SPEAKER_06 00:12:50:519 - 00:12:50:860 Mike. SPEAKER_02 00:12:51:059 - 00:13:05:179 You do have it Tobey unnice. Sam doesn't give a fuck about the server. And yet you want to hold him ultimately responsible. And he's not. You know that. I've told you ten times that he's appointed mods or admins. Because he wants to distance himself from the server. And yet you do this. SPEAKER_06 00:13:05:559 - 00:13:06:960 Yes, because he... SPEAKER_08 00:13:06:960 - 00:13:07:340 Who! SPEAKER_06 00:13:08:100 - 00:13:08:500 Who! SPEAKER_08 00:13:09:360 - 00:13:09:840 Who! SPEAKER_07 00:13:11:159 - 00:13:11:600 Who! SPEAKER_08 00:13:12:799 - 00:13:13:039 Who! SPEAKER_06 00:13:13:399 - 00:13:13:639 Hello? SPEAKER_07 00:13:14:559 - 00:13:14:899 Who! SPEAKER_08 00:13:15:539 - 00:13:16:659 Can someone mute you? SPEAKER_03 00:13:16:980 - 00:13:18:419 You can do it yourself too, Mike. SPEAKER_07 00:13:18:779 - 00:13:18:980 What? SPEAKER_03 00:13:19:200 - 00:13:25:480 Look, I understand this argument about you muting everyone except us, SPEAKER_07 00:13:25:580 - 00:13:27:679 from that thing, can I just say SPEAKER_03 00:13:27:679 - 00:13:29:759 that various people have come to me SPEAKER_07 00:13:29:759 - 00:13:31:820 in DMs, to just SPEAKER_03 00:13:31:820 - 00:13:33:840 say a word on behalf of the community. SPEAKER_07 00:13:34:879 - 00:13:35:700 There are SPEAKER_03 00:13:35:700 - 00:13:37:500 enough people in this community SPEAKER_07 00:13:37:500 - 00:13:39:600 who also have something to say, who are now SPEAKER_03 00:13:39:600 - 00:13:41:879 muted, and who can talk about it normally SPEAKER_06 00:13:41:879 - 00:13:43:740 and not so SPEAKER_05 00:13:43:740 - 00:13:44:879 autistically shouted. SPEAKER_06 00:13:45:000 - 00:13:52:000 Can I just li listen, I haven't muted anyone at all, okay? SPEAKER_03 00:13:52:000 - 00:13:53:000 That I do mine. SPEAKER_06 00:13:53:000 - 00:13:54:000 Who did that? SPEAKER_08 00:13:54:000 - 00:13:57:000 Fuck, you do ask if you want to mute people, but... SPEAKER_06 00:13:57:000 - 00:13:59:000 No but hold on, that's a fuck. SPEAKER_08 00:13:59:000 - 00:14:03:000 Yes, people who start screaming, then I said, yeah, can you mute those FCBs then. SPEAKER_07 00:14:03:000 - 00:14:07:039 Mike, this is an example of things you set up, SPEAKER_08 00:14:07:120 - 00:14:09:460 where you let others do it, because you don't want to take the blame. SPEAKER_03 00:14:09:480 - 00:14:10:860 No, but can I give an example? SPEAKER_05 00:14:10:860 - 00:14:14:100 I see Geleuven sitting here in the call. SPEAKER_02 00:14:14:360 - 00:14:16:899 And Geleuven is one of the most respectful people I know. SPEAKER_03 00:14:17:360 - 00:14:19:500 But he's muted, probably because it's done automatically. SPEAKER_02 00:14:19:559 - 00:14:20:700 Because people just mute everyone. SPEAKER_06 00:14:21:019 - 00:14:24:399 But you can't then say, if you ask others if they want to mute people, SPEAKER_03 00:14:24:480 - 00:14:26:039 then you can't say this isn't my SPEAKER_06 00:14:26:039 - 00:14:28:279 ultimate responsibility. Because you do have it. SPEAKER_03 00:14:28:879 - 00:14:30:639 You are the one ultimately responsible, SPEAKER_07 00:14:30:779 - 00:14:31:039 Mike. SPEAKER_06 00:14:31:940 - 00:14:34:100 And this is living proof for everyone who's SPEAKER_04 00:14:34:100 - 00:14:36:059 in this call. This is exactly how SPEAKER_06 00:14:36:059 - 00:14:38:000 it goes in the mod chat. I didn't SPEAKER_04 00:14:38:000 - 00:14:40:000 do it. I'm not taking responsibility SPEAKER_00 00:14:40:000 - 00:14:41:899 for it, even though it's my policy and my choice. SPEAKER_06 00:14:42:399 - 00:14:44:080 This is what we've been dealing with for months now SPEAKER_04 00:14:44:080 - 00:14:46:220 in the mod chat. And now everyone has finally been able to see this. SPEAKER_06 00:14:46:539 - 00:14:47:720 Mike, you need to understand that also... SPEAKER_04 00:14:47:720 - 00:14:49:320 Mike, nobody manages it. That's me. SPEAKER_03 00:14:49:919 - 00:14:51:940 No, but I understand that, but that doesn't make SPEAKER_04 00:14:51:940 - 00:14:53:759 the argument any less valid, you know what I mean. SPEAKER_03 00:14:54:000 - 00:14:56:059 I want communication because you are SPEAKER_06 00:14:56:059 - 00:14:58:179 the one ultimately responsible, Mike. SPEAKER_03 00:14:58:440 - 00:14:59:620 If the mods do something, SPEAKER_06 00:15:00:220 - 00:15:08:679 then you are ultimately responsible. And if you don't want it to happen, they need to communicate with you. But you don't communicate. I communicate plenty. SPEAKER_02 00:15:09:240 - 00:15:10:000 No, you don't. SPEAKER_06 00:15:10:200 - 00:15:11:059 No, no, no. SPEAKER_02 00:15:11:179 - 00:15:14:419 You also said that Sam needs to make a statement, SPEAKER_08 00:15:14:659 - 00:15:16:179 while Sam doesn't want to at all. SPEAKER_06 00:15:17:320 - 00:15:17:559 No. SPEAKER_02 00:15:17:559 - 00:15:21:879 I never said Sam needs to make a statement. Yes, you did. Yes, you did. SPEAKER_06 00:15:21:960 - 00:15:24:559 Okay, but can I then ask what I already... SPEAKER_03 00:15:26:000 - 00:15:28:000 I don't think it even matters what I say here. SPEAKER_02 00:15:28:000 - 00:15:30:000 No, oh, that's not SPEAKER_06 00:15:30:000 - 00:15:32:000 the point here, Mike. The point being made here SPEAKER_03 00:15:32:000 - 00:15:34:000 is, you know, what you say does matter. SPEAKER_02 00:15:34:000 - 00:15:36:000 It's just that the shit you say doesn't align SPEAKER_03 00:15:36:000 - 00:15:38:000 with what you say a minute later. SPEAKER_06 00:15:38:000 - 00:15:40:000 Yeah, quite so. SPEAKER_02 00:15:40:000 - 00:15:42:000 Mike, do you want to provide living proof here? SPEAKER_04 00:15:42:000 - 00:15:49:519 Guys, all grab your screens of Jury or Mike saying that Sam is openly coming with a stone material and then I'll open Sam Pub for you. Let's see how many... SPEAKER_02 00:15:49:519 - 00:15:51:840 Yeah, I was really backed into a corner SPEAKER_04 00:15:51:840 - 00:15:57:179 by everyone. At some point, I can't do anything else. Do you want to see how many screens they want to go now? SPEAKER_03 00:15:57:659 - 00:16:09:899 Listen, hello? Can I ask one general question before this just becomes one big shit-flinging contest? What is it, what do you hope to, or what does everyone actually here, what do we hope to achieve with this call? Well, SPEAKER_02 00:16:10:700 - 00:16:19:980 I removed the text channels because people were spamming with everyone pings, which was made possible by Robin and Jochum. Not my intention, but well, SPEAKER_06 00:16:20:100 - 00:16:21:679 I said it, I'm ultimately responsible. SPEAKER_02 00:16:21:919 - 00:16:23:299 Why are you bringing that up? SPEAKER_03 00:16:24:139 - 00:16:25:360 That's not my question. SPEAKER_02 00:16:25:399 - 00:16:25:960 My question is more... SPEAKER_03 00:16:25:960 - 00:16:28:840 And then people all went into voice. SPEAKER_02 00:16:29:240 - 00:16:30:220 Because that was still there. SPEAKER_03 00:16:30:860 - 00:16:32:240 And I don't know. SPEAKER_02 00:16:34:240 - 00:16:35:019 Yeah, but look. SPEAKER_03 00:16:35:080 - 00:16:37:820 People went into voice because people want to know what's going on. SPEAKER_02 00:16:38:059 - 00:16:43:460 Yes, that's right. And I understand what this call is for. And I've made an attempt to explain what's going on. SPEAKER_03 00:16:43:679 - 00:16:48:759 Well, the thing is you're not doing that. Because you're throwing people under the bus without explaining the situation. That's what's happening now. SPEAKER_06 00:16:48:899 - 00:16:54:120 And that's why such people are now riled up. But you're asked a question and you take every chance possible to say... Haha, Robin did it wrong. SPEAKER_03 00:16:55:059 - 00:17:07:980 That is, Toe Biannas, what's happening. Because I asked the question... What are we actually here for? And it was actually... I got a very vague answer. Followed by, this was made possible by x and x. That's not the point of this discussion. SPEAKER_06 00:17:08:240 - 00:17:11:380 The point of this discussion is to look at, what happened? SPEAKER_03 00:17:11:460 - 00:17:13:859 Where does it go wrong? And what are the consequences of that now? SPEAKER_06 00:17:14:019 - 00:17:24:799 It's really not that we want to crucify you or anything. Mistakes were made. I've also done a lot of things wrong. But if you answer something you did wrong by pointing out what other people did wrong. Yeah, what am I supposed to make of that? SPEAKER_02 00:17:27:140 - 00:17:29:920 I really can't give you any other reason why we're sitting here now. SPEAKER_06 00:17:30:700 - 00:17:34:319 The reason is simply that everyone is wrong, except me, and that's why we're here. SPEAKER_07 00:17:34:319 - 00:17:39:940 Because I had the truth put in server announcements with a crappy ping, that's why SPEAKER_06 00:17:39:940 - 00:17:40:339 we're here. SPEAKER_02 00:17:40:420 - 00:17:40:859 That's it. SPEAKER_07 00:17:42:140 - 00:17:43:079 But not just one, right? SPEAKER_02 00:17:43:279 - 00:17:43:619 Spam. SPEAKER_06 00:17:44:140 - 00:17:46:119 And this shouldn't have possibly SPEAKER_07 00:17:46:119 - 00:17:48:039 happened, because it all went to SPEAKER_06 00:17:48:039 - 00:17:49:880 shit. But let's phrase it a bit clearer SPEAKER_07 00:17:49:880 - 00:17:51:640 and more directly. What's the point? SPEAKER_08 00:17:51:740 - 00:17:53:799 Do you want people to understand the situation clearly, SPEAKER_03 00:17:53:839 - 00:17:55:740 that it stays quiet for a few months and then it all SPEAKER_06 00:17:55:740 - 00:17:57:400 resurfaces again, or SPEAKER_07 00:17:57:400 - 00:17:59:960 is this like a final thing? SPEAKER_03 00:18:00:059 - 00:18:01:380 What's the point of this? SPEAKER_02 00:18:02:079 - 00:18:03:839 Yeah, for me it was SPEAKER_03 00:18:03:839 - 00:18:06:059 pretty clear that this was becoming a final thing. SPEAKER_06 00:18:06:900 - 00:18:09:079 I can tell you the good point of this. SPEAKER_02 00:18:09:099 - 00:18:11:039 Yeah, what do you want to do then? Hand over ownership? SPEAKER_04 00:18:11:740 - 00:18:13:180 I never had ownership. SPEAKER_06 00:18:13:400 - 00:18:14:960 No, okay, I know that. That's not what I meant. SPEAKER_04 00:18:14:960 - 00:18:21:579 But since this is people's reaction to me, SPEAKER_06 00:18:22:319 - 00:18:28:880 how I moderated, good or bad, and yes, I was indeed one of the SPEAKER_02 00:18:28:880 - 00:18:34:160 few who took it seriously, especially at the beginning when I appointed mods, yes indeed people came SPEAKER_00 00:18:34:160 - 00:18:45:500 who really wanted to contribute and what. May I... No, I was half destroyed in my sentence. SPEAKER_02 00:18:45:500 - 00:18:49:000 Yes, where you had to mention again that you were one of the few. SPEAKER_04 00:18:49:000 - 00:18:50:000 Mike? SPEAKER_02 00:18:50:000 - 00:18:55:500 Yeah, but that's both an argument for and against me. SPEAKER_06 00:18:56:500 - 00:19:02:000 Because you all want to nail me to a cross now, but that's because I... SPEAKER_02 00:19:03:000 - 00:19:06:960 Well, yes, because it was my system, so I'm responsible for it. Well, but you are too. SPEAKER_00 00:19:07:720 - 00:19:08:539 Yes, I know that. SPEAKER_03 00:19:09:279 - 00:19:10:339 No, but hold on a moment. SPEAKER_02 00:19:10:960 - 00:19:13:019 You are too, in some way. SPEAKER_03 00:19:13:559 - 00:19:14:460 Of course I am. SPEAKER_02 00:19:14:920 - 00:19:15:720 Yes, but then you have to... SPEAKER_03 00:19:15:720 - 00:19:17:900 But at the same time... SPEAKER_02 00:19:17:900 - 00:19:20:720 People didn't want... SPEAKER_03 00:19:20:720 - 00:19:24:400 If anything went well... SPEAKER_02 00:19:24:400 - 00:19:28:240 Then nothing is ever said. SPEAKER_03 00:19:28:539 - 00:19:29:759 No, but that's how Discord works. SPEAKER_07 00:19:30:119 - 00:19:31:779 That's how life works. SPEAKER_02 00:19:31:920 - 00:19:33:579 That's honestly how life works. SPEAKER_07 00:19:33:680 - 00:19:36:339 And of course, if there's a system... SPEAKER_03 00:19:36:339 - 00:19:39:539 Where someone else takes responsibility... SPEAKER_07 00:19:40:660 - 00:19:44:539 Then you'd rather have that person... SPEAKER_02 00:19:44:539 - 00:19:46:420 Get all that hate. SPEAKER_06 00:19:48:160 - 00:19:51:420 Because there's been no one in this server who... SPEAKER_02 00:19:52:680 - 00:19:57:220 wanted to take that burden off the masses' shoulders as much as I did. SPEAKER_03 00:19:57:619 - 00:19:58:640 No, okay. SPEAKER_02 00:19:59:039 - 00:20:00:700 No, but okay, okay, okay. SPEAKER_06 00:20:00:920 - 00:20:02:220 Point taken, let's say. SPEAKER_02 00:20:02:819 - 00:20:07:220 But if you then take on 90% of the moderation, as you say yourself, SPEAKER_06 00:20:07:359 - 00:20:10:480 isn't it logical that you automatically put the biggest target on your back? SPEAKER_03 00:20:10:759 - 00:20:13:039 Yes, absolutely. And I realize that now. SPEAKER_06 00:20:13:339 - 00:20:15:319 And that was a big mistake. SPEAKER_02 00:20:15:700 - 00:20:20:180 But certainly, I have to say, that was negative, that was in the first half of 2018. SPEAKER_06 00:20:22:200 - 00:20:36:799 Yes, we were in the transition from a team of people who knew the masses to a team that actually wanted to moderate and actively contribute to the server. SPEAKER_02 00:20:38:420 - 00:20:40:660 When was the moment you discovered it was a big mistake? SPEAKER_04 00:20:41:519 - 00:20:51:880 What? When was the moment you discovered it was a big mistake? What? Well, after removing SPEAKER_02 00:20:51:880 - 00:20:52:900 political quarantine. SPEAKER_04 00:20:53:980 - 00:20:55:859 Not before? No. SPEAKER_02 00:20:57:160 - 00:20:58:000 But that's also a... SPEAKER_04 00:20:58:859 - 00:20:59:940 So with that earlier SPEAKER_06 00:20:59:940 - 00:21:01:700 argument, you didn't think like... SPEAKER_04 00:21:01:700 - 00:21:03:599 Actually, in principle, what SPEAKER_06 00:21:03:599 - 00:21:05:319 is being said now, SPEAKER_04 00:21:06:160 - 00:21:07:640 after you influenced your policy, SPEAKER_06 00:21:07:880 - 00:21:09:920 from political quarantine I can say that SPEAKER_04 00:21:09:920 - 00:21:11:940 I definitely found the policy worse. SPEAKER_06 00:21:12:380 - 00:21:13:960 I think, all bots you see, I think SPEAKER_04 00:21:13:960 - 00:21:29:619 all admins, except you and Jury, and I think, all buddies you see, they'll probably agree with me if we say that since the removal of political quarantine, it's not about the removal itself, but just since that moment, has the policy completely deteriorated? Has it really SPEAKER_07 00:21:29:619 - 00:21:32:000 gone completely downhill? SPEAKER_04 00:21:32:279 - 00:21:34:019 Yes, absolutely. SPEAKER_02 00:21:34:619 - 00:21:35:420 And now my question is, SPEAKER_07 00:21:35:960 - 00:21:36:819 whose fault is this? SPEAKER_02 00:21:37:740 - 00:21:40:119 I'll take the blame SPEAKER_07 00:21:40:119 - 00:21:42:160 but also share it, because SPEAKER_04 00:21:42:160 - 00:21:46:599 removing something as big as political quarantine makes a SPEAKER_02 00:21:46:599 - 00:21:53:859 lot of people unhappy and then I might have good reasons or bad reasons but in SPEAKER_04 00:21:53:859 - 00:22:05:700 principle from that point on whatever we did as staff there was always someone who complained and there was always drama and protest from SPEAKER_02 00:22:05:700 - 00:22:16:920 that's why we as admins happened to decide to remove protest because no that has SPEAKER_06 00:22:16:920 - 00:22:26:539 completely different reasons but you sit I protest box is just a bit of a place for people to, I don't know, protest. SPEAKER_04 00:22:26:940 - 00:22:29:960 And the moment people have a genuine complaint, you remove it. SPEAKER_02 00:22:30:259 - 00:22:30:500 No. SPEAKER_06 00:22:31:119 - 00:22:33:700 I've hardly censored anything. SPEAKER_04 00:22:34:420 - 00:22:37:920 You removed the protest box when you couldn't handle yourself regarding Sam. SPEAKER_06 00:22:38:140 - 00:22:39:799 Yes, of course. SPEAKER_02 00:22:39:799 - 00:22:45:160 That evening I was together with... SPEAKER_06 00:22:45:160 - 00:22:46:200 You have the truth SPEAKER_02 00:22:46:200 - 00:22:47:660 for somberism swept away. SPEAKER_06 00:22:47:920 - 00:22:50:039 I don't know why, but that was stupid. SPEAKER_04 00:22:50:400 - 00:22:51:640 This is not the thing, Robin. SPEAKER_02 00:22:51:779 - 00:22:53:700 You're literally saying now hardly censored. SPEAKER_06 00:22:54:019 - 00:22:56:119 If you had hardly censored, then you wouldn't have just deleted the message SPEAKER_02 00:22:56:119 - 00:22:57:880 from Jochem. Then you wouldn't have now SPEAKER_06 00:22:57:880 - 00:22:59:660 done all channels for all buddies. SPEAKER_02 00:23:00:420 - 00:23:01:720 Then you wouldn't have everyone now... SPEAKER_06 00:23:01:720 - 00:23:04:220 If he had just made an announcement SPEAKER_02 00:23:04:220 - 00:23:07:000 without buddies ping and without underlying... SPEAKER_07 00:23:07:000 - 00:23:09:000 What are you saying? SPEAKER_02 00:23:09:000 - 00:23:11:000 Underlying... SPEAKER_06 00:23:11:000 - 00:23:13:000 Look. SPEAKER_02 00:23:15:000 - 00:23:22:000 The moment a group of twenty, thirty people forms... SPEAKER_04 00:23:22:000 - 00:23:26:019 But he's literally saying now, if the buddies weren't pinged, I would have continued SPEAKER_07 00:23:26:019 - 00:23:28:000 screwing myself over. That's what you're saying now. SPEAKER_02 00:23:28:039 - 00:23:29:740 If the buddies weren't pinged, I would have SPEAKER_04 00:23:29:740 - 00:23:31:500 gladly been screwing myself over already. SPEAKER_02 00:23:31:940 - 00:23:32:579 That's what you're saying now. SPEAKER_04 00:23:33:240 - 00:23:36:640 But that's also again, SPEAKER_06 00:23:36:900 - 00:23:38:019 what I also do, SPEAKER_04 00:23:38:079 - 00:23:39:779 it doesn't matter. If I had left it up, I would now SPEAKER_02 00:23:39:779 - 00:23:42:200 according to you have screwed myself over. And if I had removed it SPEAKER_07 00:23:42:200 - 00:23:43:400 I would have been a Nazi mouth. SPEAKER_02 00:23:43:880 - 00:23:47:599 This is just an example of what I also did, I would have been the asshole. SPEAKER_07 00:23:47:599 - 00:23:49:599 What is this about, guys? SPEAKER_04 00:23:49:599 - 00:23:52:599 This is how I've been living for weeks, Dago. SPEAKER_07 00:23:52:599 - 00:23:55:599 No, no, no. You're misunderstanding me. SPEAKER_02 00:23:55:599 - 00:23:57:599 This is shit flinging from both sides. SPEAKER_04 00:23:57:599 - 00:24:01:599 We're now going into the smallest details that in the long run don't matter a fuck. SPEAKER_02 00:24:01:599 - 00:24:06:099 Look, of course it's something like process, fuck, I saw the spam SPEAKER_07 00:24:06:099 - 00:24:07:680 in there sometimes. But to then SPEAKER_04 00:24:07:680 - 00:24:09:980 constantly engage in discussion, can't you just SPEAKER_02 00:24:09:980 - 00:24:11:700 ban people, question mark? SPEAKER_04 00:24:11:880 - 00:24:13:920 That's what I wanted to do! SPEAKER_02 00:24:14:180 - 00:24:16:160 But do you know how much feedback there was on that? SPEAKER_03 00:24:16:559 - 00:24:18:279 Calm down, calm down, calm down. SPEAKER_02 00:24:18:460 - 00:24:20:200 You don't need to rev up your test trunk. SPEAKER_00 00:24:20:299 - 00:24:21:099 You can also talk normally. SPEAKER_03 00:24:21:640 - 00:24:23:019 No, but... SPEAKER_00 00:24:23:019 - 00:24:25:440 I want to be honest about that. SPEAKER_03 00:24:25:720 - 00:24:28:079 Again, Mike, this is literally SPEAKER_02 00:24:28:079 - 00:24:29:880 what I really just SPEAKER_00 00:24:29:880 - 00:24:31:339 told you two weeks ago. SPEAKER_02 00:24:32:079 - 00:24:33:359 If you want to ban people, SPEAKER_00 00:24:33:900 - 00:24:35:859 be my guest, but then you take SPEAKER_03 00:24:35:859 - 00:24:38:019 that responsibility. That's it indeed. SPEAKER_00 00:24:38:460 - 00:24:40:059 That's for everyone. Everyone who wants it, SPEAKER_07 00:24:40:240 - 00:24:41:579 I damn you with love. SPEAKER_00 00:24:41:579 - 00:24:43:579 Those recordings, then you can listen back to it yourself. SPEAKER_07 00:24:44:579 - 00:24:46:880 I literally told you SPEAKER_00 00:24:46:880 - 00:24:48:759 Either you implement your policy SPEAKER_03 00:24:48:759 - 00:24:50:359 But take responsibility SPEAKER_02 00:24:50:359 - 00:24:52:819 Or you actually give SPEAKER_03 00:24:52:819 - 00:24:54:000 My input to the mod SPEAKER_07 00:24:54:000 - 00:24:55:779 Listen to what the makers think SPEAKER_03 00:24:55:779 - 00:24:58:099 And actually do something good for the server SPEAKER_00 00:24:58:099 - 00:25:01:680 And what did you say to that? SPEAKER_04 00:25:01:960 - 00:25:03:440 Then I said afterwards SPEAKER_03 00:25:03:440 - 00:25:04:859 I said okay SPEAKER_04 00:25:04:859 - 00:25:08:119 Do you want to play dictator or do you actually want to do something? And you said then why? Then I said afterwards, I said, okay, do you want to play little dictator or do you actually want to do something? SPEAKER_00 00:25:08:579 - 00:25:09:799 And you said then I'd rather be a dictator. SPEAKER_04 00:25:09:799 - 00:25:12:140 No way, you didn't say it like that at all. SPEAKER_06 00:25:12:660 - 00:25:14:980 This is another one of those cases, come on guys. SPEAKER_08 00:25:15:000 - 00:25:15:579 Not on the recording. SPEAKER_04 00:25:16:240 - 00:25:16:900 Not on the recording. SPEAKER_08 00:25:17:599 - 00:25:18:680 Boy, listen. SPEAKER_04 00:25:19:299 - 00:25:21:079 I can tell you about that recording. SPEAKER_08 00:25:21:940 - 00:25:25:559 Because I was also then, and also in protest areas and actually in many cases, SPEAKER_04 00:25:25:859 - 00:25:27:960 completely backed into a corner by people who SPEAKER_08 00:25:27:960 - 00:25:30:079 have become completely obsessed SPEAKER_07 00:25:30:079 - 00:25:32:079 with the mistakes I've SPEAKER_08 00:25:32:079 - 00:25:34:299 made and the holes in my system SPEAKER_04 00:25:34:299 - 00:25:36:059 There's probably something better, SPEAKER_03 00:25:36:160 - 00:25:37:740 of course. Mike, that's unfair to say. SPEAKER_04 00:25:37:880 - 00:25:40:000 All we did was contradict you, because we didn't SPEAKER_02 00:25:40:000 - 00:25:42:119 agree with you. Then you went into full SPEAKER_04 00:25:42:119 - 00:25:44:339 defense mode. You're ganging up on me! SPEAKER_02 00:25:44:920 - 00:25:45:940 That's unfair, Mike. SPEAKER_04 00:25:46:259 - 00:25:48:220 And besides, you've always had Joeri on your side. SPEAKER_03 00:25:48:299 - 00:25:50:200 So you shouldn't talk about that. But listen. SPEAKER_02 00:25:50:480 - 00:25:50:920 This is what it's about. SPEAKER_06 00:25:51:359 - 00:25:54:460 That you want to ban people from the protest area, we didn't agree with that. SPEAKER_08 00:25:54:500 - 00:25:56:200 That's true. Yes, that's correct. SPEAKER_06 00:25:56:420 - 00:25:57:940 We indeed also said then, SPEAKER_08 00:25:58:000 - 00:26:00:299 Roek said that, if you want to do that, SPEAKER_06 00:26:00:759 - 00:26:05:619 do it, but then you take the responsibility. And you don't do that. You were, Mike... Listen, I've banned enough people you the responsibility and you don't do that. I have, SPEAKER_04 00:26:05:619 - 00:26:07:779 I listen, I've banned enough people SPEAKER_02 00:26:07:779 - 00:26:19:740 and taken responsibility myself. Has it helped? Absolutely not. Why? Because the community, the mindset of the community changed here in 2018, where they no longer tolerated SPEAKER_05 00:26:19:740 - 00:26:20:099 authoritarian behavior. SPEAKER_02 00:26:21:319 - 00:26:23:599 About the mindset of the community, SPEAKER_05 00:26:23:859 - 00:26:25:500 right, Joris? Can I agree as the voice of the community can I SPEAKER_07 00:26:25:500 - 00:26:28:279 agree as the voice of the community SPEAKER_02 00:26:28:279 - 00:26:30:200 because apparently I've been appointed SPEAKER_07 00:26:30:200 - 00:26:31:339 as the voice of the community SPEAKER_05 00:26:31:339 - 00:26:34:180 I have so many people in my SPEAKER_07 00:26:34:180 - 00:26:35:779 DMs who don't SPEAKER_05 00:26:35:779 - 00:26:58:220 understand what's going on but the only thing they do understand now Mike is that you're playing an enormous victim card on everyone what people want to hear right now is not, I've made a lot of mistakes but that's because of this or I've done this and this, but I've taken everything on myself, because I'm the mod who solves everything, people really don't want to hear that SPEAKER_02 00:26:58:220 - 00:27:00:960 we can also talk about SPEAKER_00 00:27:00:960 - 00:27:02:880 about what's going to happen with the server SPEAKER_05 00:27:02:880 - 00:27:03:700 but I think you guys SPEAKER_02 00:27:03:700 - 00:27:07:259 are very interested in my role in this. SPEAKER_06 00:27:07:500 - 00:27:08:279 We'll do that later. SPEAKER_02 00:27:08:599 - 00:27:12:960 What people want is concrete information on what's going to happen with the server. That's it, that's what we want. SPEAKER_06 00:27:12:960 - 00:27:14:900 That's, I think at this point, up to Sam. SPEAKER_02 00:27:16:200 - 00:27:17:980 No, no, what should I say? SPEAKER_06 00:27:18:000 - 00:27:18:700 No, no, no, no. SPEAKER_03 00:27:19:400 - 00:27:21:339 Sam, hold yourself responsible, don't do that now. SPEAKER_06 00:27:21:720 - 00:27:25:880 Let's take an outsider's perspective, because that's what I am, and say what's happening now. SPEAKER_03 00:27:26:140 - 00:27:56:200 At this moment, it's just a service, complete quarantine, gone south, radioactive, all that mess included. Then it's not helpful to involve someone, at least not super directly, who has never been involved with it. A decision has already been made about whether Mas still sees the purpose of this server, what was the original purpose? You need to involve that. But it's not that all this shit... all this mud-slinging, all these DM issues... whatever you guys are doing... needs to be sorted out with Sam involved. SPEAKER_04 00:27:56:980 - 00:28:06:839 Because he doesn't care about that at all. I want to prove one thing to Mike real quick. Because I feel like Mike has been thinking a lot lately... SPEAKER_06 00:28:06:839 - 00:28:17:339 We need to try to concretely establish what we're doing with the server now. Everything regarding the roles and the argument. SPEAKER_02 00:28:17:839 - 00:28:23:180 Yes, and everything about me and about you guys and between us. Okay, then my... SPEAKER_08 00:28:23:180 - 00:28:27:140 I think it's a very good plan, guys, to now look at what SPEAKER_05 00:28:27:140 - 00:28:32:359 we're doing with the server and this mess that we're now shouting back and forth at each other about SPEAKER_08 00:28:32:359 - 00:28:38:960 the smallest detail is that we'll do that in moderation matters I want to make one thing clear SPEAKER_06 00:28:38:960 - 00:28:49:240 and that's because I feel that certainly the majority here agrees with you guys. SPEAKER_08 00:28:50:819 - 00:28:52:440 I'm willing to step down with love. SPEAKER_02 00:28:53:279 - 00:28:54:079 Well, that's what we're doing, right? SPEAKER_03 00:28:54:480 - 00:28:57:680 It's not even a matter of agreeing or not. SPEAKER_06 00:28:57:980 - 00:29:01:900 It's more about looking at where you can take responsibility. SPEAKER_03 00:29:02:059 - 00:29:08:240 Where do other people need to take responsibility? And how do you proceed from there? Because you can step down. Or you can't. SPEAKER_00 00:29:10:400 - 00:29:11:500 Let him finish speaking. SPEAKER_07 00:29:12:160 - 00:29:14:660 Tago, I've been living here for a month now. SPEAKER_00 00:29:14:779 - 00:29:15:279 No, longer. SPEAKER_07 00:29:15:960 - 00:29:16:680 Two months. SPEAKER_00 00:29:17:339 - 00:29:21:839 I don't enjoy moderating anymore. SPEAKER_07 00:29:22:359 - 00:29:23:900 Haven't for months. SPEAKER_00 00:29:24:339 - 00:29:24:920 Yes, but Mike. SPEAKER_02 00:29:24:920 - 00:29:25:960 If you don't leave, if you don't step down. Then you're leaving us to moderate your mess. Haven't for months. Yes, but Mike, if you leave now, SPEAKER_07 00:29:26:000 - 00:29:27:859 if you step down now, you're leaving us your SPEAKER_00 00:29:27:859 - 00:29:29:819 mess to clean up. That's not true. SPEAKER_03 00:29:30:119 - 00:29:31:460 Whoa, whoa, that's not an argument. Look, SPEAKER_02 00:29:31:799 - 00:29:33:779 it's moderation, it's voluntary, it's all SPEAKER_00 00:29:33:779 - 00:29:36:039 free time that you spend. If you don't enjoy it, SPEAKER_06 00:29:36:039 - 00:29:37:920 you should step down. That's a fair argument. SPEAKER_00 00:29:38:420 - 00:29:39:839 But the thing is, SPEAKER_06 00:29:40:039 - 00:29:41:960 you have to take into account. If you SPEAKER_00 00:29:41:960 - 00:29:43:839 don't enjoy it anymore, you need to SPEAKER_02 00:29:43:839 - 00:29:45:180 indicate that eventually. SPEAKER_06 00:29:45:480 - 00:29:48:240 Suppose you start moderating with a completely trash mindset... SPEAKER_02 00:29:48:240 - 00:29:49:960 and it just becomes one big shitfest because of that. SPEAKER_06 00:29:50:039 - 00:29:51:640 Yeah, then people are going to question things. SPEAKER_03 00:29:53:359 - 00:29:55:119 And that's kind of what's happened now, I think. SPEAKER_07 00:29:55:240 - 00:29:59:279 I had the idea that if I were to leave... SPEAKER_06 00:29:59:279 - 00:30:00:880 the whole server would actually fall apart. SPEAKER_07 00:30:01:759 - 00:30:01:980 No. SPEAKER_03 00:30:04:099 - 00:30:07:619 That could be, I don't know, you don't dare to say but then then you have SPEAKER_02 00:30:07:619 - 00:30:15:900 responsibility so yes and we need to take it's very simple and there are probably now SPEAKER_03 00:30:15:900 - 00:30:21:380 a lot of people who simultaneously actually don't want to see me again but also yes but I SPEAKER_02 00:30:21:380 - 00:30:26:559 want to clean up doesn't belong you can be the biggest loss about just potatoes, but if you can run a server well, SPEAKER_03 00:30:26:640 - 00:30:27:160 nobody cares. SPEAKER_08 00:30:27:579 - 00:30:28:940 Just something in between here. SPEAKER_03 00:30:29:960 - 00:30:32:119 Nobody, I wouldn't say that SPEAKER_02 00:30:32:119 - 00:30:33:880 nobody cares what's going to happen now, but SPEAKER_03 00:30:33:880 - 00:30:36:000 I'm getting a message from someone here, SPEAKER_06 00:30:36:160 - 00:30:38:119 just say that as a regular user I just want a server SPEAKER_03 00:30:38:119 - 00:30:40:160 back, and leave it with other parties SPEAKER_02 00:30:40:160 - 00:30:41:680 There are a lot of people who SPEAKER_03 00:30:41:680 - 00:30:43:880 obviously want to keep the server, even me. SPEAKER_02 00:30:44:720 - 00:30:46:619 Yeah, look, the thing is... SPEAKER_01 00:30:46:619 - 00:30:55:920 The way we were given responsibility by the masses to run the server in his name. SPEAKER_07 00:30:56:000 - 00:30:58:099 Because he's ultimately responsible and he didn't want that. SPEAKER_01 00:30:58:200 - 00:30:59:579 So he made us responsible. SPEAKER_03 00:30:59:579 - 00:31:04:799 But the buddies specifically went against me and Joeri saying... SPEAKER_01 00:31:04:799 - 00:31:07:819 Don't you trust them anymore? Let Sam's voice be heard. SPEAKER_02 00:31:08:299 - 00:31:19:519 Because until then, this discussion isn't over. Yeah, I'm literally sitting between two sides that don't want to communicate with each other. SPEAKER_03 00:31:19:980 - 00:31:26:359 But if they say that to you, then it's very simple. We're not the ones responsible. You're not the one stuck in your throat, you know? SPEAKER_02 00:31:26:500 - 00:31:33:680 Yeah, I would have loved to do that. But then more than half of the people in my staff team... would have thought I was a Nazi mod. SPEAKER_06 00:31:33:880 - 00:31:35:819 Yeah, but Mike, listen. Can I ask something? SPEAKER_07 00:31:37:220 - 00:31:41:700 That people came to you about wanting to hear something from Sam. SPEAKER_02 00:31:42:240 - 00:31:45:660 Did that happen before or after you promised a statement? SPEAKER_07 00:31:46:480 - 00:31:47:980 That's before. That's the reason. SPEAKER_06 00:31:48:700 - 00:31:50:180 That I said SPEAKER_02 00:31:50:180 - 00:32:02:019 and I never promised a statement. I said we would discuss. And that maybe a statement would come out of that. But I never promised. And people made a promise out of that. That's again SPEAKER_06 00:32:02:019 - 00:32:07:359 behind the... Yeah, and then you closed the protest area under the guise of we're not saying anything more comes from my statement. SPEAKER_02 00:32:07:980 - 00:32:23:680 I didn't close it. Jury and I agreed that the discussion there was really going purely into the abyss. Because at that point it was just mud-slinging attacks on everything and anything. Captain can confirm. And really nothing could solve that anymore. SPEAKER_03 00:32:24:279 - 00:32:25:759 Well, but then it's far that you close that. SPEAKER_02 00:32:25:779 - 00:32:35:119 Then it is indeed far that we closed it. And then you can say, yeah, but you know, protest area is where people can make their opinions heard. SPEAKER_06 00:32:35:500 - 00:32:45:759 We have that right. No, but that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that you closed the protest area under the pretense that it will open when Sam says something. That's wrong. Not that you take protest faxes. SPEAKER_07 00:32:46:759 - 00:32:47:480 I get you. SPEAKER_04 00:32:47:960 - 00:32:58:119 It's all anyway that he still assumes that everyone here, all the buddies, don't want to listen to you, but do want to listen to Sam. And that's what I'm still bothered by. SPEAKER_00 00:32:58:680 - 00:33:00:579 If there are those who have nothing to do with it SPEAKER_08 00:33:00:579 - 00:33:02:279 I don't understand a fuck anymore. SPEAKER_03 00:33:02:599 - 00:33:38:059 Explain it, man. The thing is indeed, look, I mean, I understand indeed that you say, yeah, people do want to hear from Sam. I doubt how well that's going to work out, because if Sam says something bad, then it's, or at least, if Sam says, the server is going away, bye-bye, then it's all Mike's fault. And if Sam says something good, then he's been bought by the mods. So that's not really something you can depend on, indeed. It's more about the fact that we now have a situation here caused by the people who have taken responsibility for it. And then you indeed can't say, wait for a statement from Sam, that's not going to help. So then SPEAKER_04 00:33:38:059 - 00:33:39:220 I understand that you... SPEAKER_07 00:33:39:220 - 00:33:42:400 He's still convinced SPEAKER_03 00:33:42:400 - 00:33:44:059 that everyone here wants such a statement SPEAKER_04 00:33:44:059 - 00:33:45:359 from Sam. Everyone. Well, I don't know where he got that conviction Everyone here wants such a statement from Sam Everyone SPEAKER_03 00:33:45:359 - 00:33:48:980 Well I don't know where he got that conviction from SPEAKER_02 00:33:48:980 - 00:33:58:359 Well that doesn't matter It's not necessary That's the low-key part of this That you often close protests because the discussion there is toxic That's fucking fine you know That's up to you SPEAKER_03 00:33:58:359 - 00:34:15:420 It's only if you then react there And I don't know if it is but I'm hearing now Yeah we're waiting until Sam says something, then that's something you have to follow through on your promise eventually. And you think that SPEAKER_07 00:34:15:420 - 00:34:17:780 if people, you know, deliberately SPEAKER_02 00:34:17:780 - 00:34:19:920 provoke the staff and SPEAKER_07 00:34:19:920 - 00:34:21:760 look for loopholes to endlessly SPEAKER_02 00:34:21:760 - 00:34:26:079 discuss, and deliberately make the atmosphere toxic, that I should have SPEAKER_03 00:34:26:079 - 00:34:27:980 banned them. Yeah, you're not. SPEAKER_02 00:34:28:460 - 00:34:29:739 I think so too. SPEAKER_03 00:34:30:260 - 00:34:32:199 I think so too. But then you have to do this. SPEAKER_02 00:34:32:760 - 00:34:33:739 But there are SPEAKER_03 00:34:33:739 - 00:34:36:099 so many people who went against me SPEAKER_02 00:34:36:099 - 00:34:38:179 in that, that at some point I just SPEAKER_03 00:34:38:179 - 00:34:39:400 didn't dare to do anything anymore. SPEAKER_02 00:34:39:780 - 00:34:41:519 But I doubt if that's really SPEAKER_03 00:34:41:519 - 00:34:44:440 how it goes, because I can remember discussions SPEAKER_02 00:34:44:440 - 00:34:45:539 that we had. SPEAKER_08 00:34:45:920 - 00:34:47:860 About the legendary banned role. SPEAKER_02 00:34:48:159 - 00:34:49:519 That you didn't want to ban people. SPEAKER_08 00:34:49:599 - 00:34:51:099 But that you gave them that role. SPEAKER_02 00:34:51:280 - 00:34:53:300 I don't know where the idea came from. SPEAKER_07 00:34:53:840 - 00:35:05:139 But I can remember. Well. That was a very long time ago. SPEAKER_02 00:35:05:260 - 00:35:17:219 And that was because we wanted to give people the right to view Studio Massa updates. But we've also outdated that and we just ban people now. Because people were leaving the server to lose that role. But that's irrelevant. SPEAKER_04 00:35:19:199 - 00:35:23:780 Well, the thing is mainly that you for the same money still said two weeks ago... SPEAKER_02 00:35:23:780 - 00:35:45:260 that you don't dare to ban them, but you do want me to implement that policy no I was completely lost due to both different opinions from the buddies and from the staff members because I couldn't really do anything anymore and people who complained anyway even if I had banned all those people who caused unrest in the protest area, even if I didn't do it. SPEAKER_04 00:35:47:420 - 00:35:48:420 So you're saying you're not a competent staff member? SPEAKER_02 00:35:54:019 - 00:36:00:539 Well, yes. I would have really liked to just take that authority and ban everyone. But I think the server would have been even worse off then, because complaints would have come in even faster. SPEAKER_04 00:36:03:000 - 00:36:11:400 I still want to say something very clearly. I think that whatever I had done, we would have ended up in this call because people just SPEAKER_02 00:36:11:400 - 00:36:15:000 weren't satisfied with how I handled things as an admin. SPEAKER_04 00:36:15:000 - 00:36:21:000 No, but look, you know what the thing is here? SPEAKER_02 00:36:21:000 - 00:36:26:900 The beginning of this whole problem in general. The complete beginning of. SPEAKER_04 00:36:27:719 - 00:36:36:780 And I've said this so many times now. I've said this to you so many times. And it's something that Dago knows. That Robin knows. That everyone here knows. You're taking this too seriously. SPEAKER_06 00:36:37:260 - 00:36:38:079 Yes, but listen. SPEAKER_04 00:36:38:199 - 00:36:39:099 No, but that's not an argument. SPEAKER_03 00:36:39:440 - 00:36:41:800 That's not an argument. Guys, we're getting off track again. SPEAKER_04 00:36:41:880 - 00:36:48:500 The buddies are really hungry for a concrete answer... ...about what we want to do with the server. And we're really straying far off topic. SPEAKER_01 00:36:48:960 - 00:36:51:119 They want to know how what... SPEAKER_06 00:36:51:119 - 00:36:53:159 They want the server back. ...where they stand. SPEAKER_05 00:36:54:639 - 00:36:59:460 I'm indeed also getting various messages about... SPEAKER_06 00:36:59:460 - 00:37:01:760 ...that people want us to take our personal beef... SPEAKER_05 00:37:01:760 - 00:37:03:099 ...somewhere else... SPEAKER_06 00:37:03:099 - 00:37:05:239 ...and that they just want clarity SPEAKER_05 00:37:05:239 - 00:37:09:940 about what's going to happen with the server. Because that's why they're here. And I really think they SPEAKER_08 00:37:09:940 - 00:37:15:400 are being forgotten at the moment. We only have a problem there. We're trying to do that in moderation SPEAKER_01 00:37:15:400 - 00:37:25:119 matters, but that has also led to this. So you want to do it publicly while hundreds of buddies are listening in. No, that's not what I'm saying. SPEAKER_05 00:37:25:239 - 00:37:30:639 These buddies are just waiting for the go-ahead that the server will continue. SPEAKER_01 00:37:30:820 - 00:37:31:320 That's right. SPEAKER_05 00:37:33:900 - 00:37:35:719 People want their server back. SPEAKER_04 00:37:36:219 - 00:37:37:380 Listen, listen, guys. SPEAKER_05 00:37:37:800 - 00:37:38:539 No, calm down. SPEAKER_01 00:37:39:820 - 00:37:41:340 I think that's the most important thing for now. SPEAKER_06 00:37:44:260 - 00:37:49:239 Okay, then I have a proposal but can you suggest what you what what SPEAKER_05 00:37:49:239 - 00:37:52:300 your proposal is to solve this situation and on the people about now again SPEAKER_06 00:37:52:300 - 00:37:57:699 can open what is okay suppose I had the following ideas SPEAKER_01 00:37:57:699 - 00:38:03:099 and there I had first mention Sam namely SPEAKER_03 00:38:03:099 - 00:38:09:679 the final responsibility for the server doesn't lie with Sam, because he has no benefit from the moderation. SPEAKER_01 00:38:10:679 - 00:38:19:539 So the final responsibility goes to the admins, one of the admins becomes owner, and the server becomes by fans, for fans. SPEAKER_03 00:38:19:800 - 00:38:21:239 And he is an honored guest. SPEAKER_04 00:38:27:739 - 00:38:32:119 is an honored guest then with all the drama between the makers and the mods or between the mods and the staff and whatever that doesn't matter at all for him because he's just an honored guest SPEAKER_03 00:38:36:400 - 00:38:40:639 the responsibility for moderation doesn't lie solely with the app anymore because that caused SPEAKER_07 00:38:40:639 - 00:38:45:800 the app to have to make decisions for the mods. And then the admins had to steer. SPEAKER_04 00:38:46:380 - 00:38:47:139 And they didn't want that. SPEAKER_07 00:38:47:460 - 00:38:50:099 Or there were problems with that between the admins and the mods. SPEAKER_04 00:38:52:039 - 00:39:02:920 So the full responsibility for moderation would lie shared and independently on all trash buddies. SPEAKER_03 00:39:03:739 - 00:39:05:960 So everyone is responsible for their own moderation. SPEAKER_04 00:39:06:119 - 00:39:09:039 And if complaints come in, they're handled individually as well. SPEAKER_03 00:39:11:320 - 00:39:13:360 And therefore, for that extra responsibility, SPEAKER_04 00:39:13:360 - 00:39:18:059 the trash buddies would get more rights and more prestige. SPEAKER_02 00:39:18:760 - 00:39:21:179 So instead of the admins at the top of the server, SPEAKER_07 00:39:21:440 - 00:39:23:360 trash buddies would be at the top of the server... SPEAKER_02 00:39:30:280 - 00:39:33:820 And you know, ban rights and such don't matter if you just do that last SPEAKER_07 00:39:33:820 - 00:39:36:460 considering SPEAKER_02 00:39:37:760 - 00:40:02:099 there's so much underutilized in the protest area and since the removal of political quarantine if Sam Massa no longer had final responsibility for the server, and in principle can't be associated with it by journalists as responsible, political quarantine could come back as an opt-in channel, so with a role. SPEAKER_04 00:40:15:940 - 00:40:20:880 I'm going to mute this and you won't mind and if you then want to see a server from study with politics then you can take that role then SPEAKER_02 00:40:20:880 - 00:40:25:340 you can have political talk there and everything related to it and if you really SPEAKER_04 00:40:25:340 - 00:40:30:320 wanted to see a server without politics then you don't take that role and it will be just as if SPEAKER_02 00:40:30:320 - 00:40:35:239 politics would never be allowed because politics would only be allowed within that SPEAKER_06 00:40:35:239 - 00:40:40:739 channel and this we were also this we were also applying to fan quarantine because there was a lot of SPEAKER_02 00:40:40:739 - 00:40:48:000 criticism okay sorry I'm saying this but I don't want you shining with my proposal. SPEAKER_04 00:40:48:000 - 00:40:50:000 Oh, okay. No, this is going too far now. SPEAKER_02 00:40:50:000 - 00:40:53:000 Guys, okay. What I'm hearing, it's a bit of a hierarchy problem. SPEAKER_04 00:40:53:000 - 00:40:57:000 That's not really something for buddy matters, so to speak. SPEAKER_03 00:40:57:000 - 00:40:59:000 No, we can fight this out in the mod chat. SPEAKER_06 00:40:59:000 - 00:41:03:000 Yes, exactly. This goes back a while, huh. SPEAKER_03 00:41:03:000 - 00:41:05:460 Calm down. Okay. SPEAKER_06 00:41:10:079 - 00:41:10:380 I think the most important thing is to answer the question now, are we getting the server back. SPEAKER_07 00:41:12:079 - 00:41:12:420 Yeah, no, how exactly does that work? SPEAKER_06 00:41:14:199 - 00:41:14:739 If you need to discuss it, then discuss it. SPEAKER_07 00:41:18:880 - 00:41:21:260 But I would do it now with sub-staff, or whatever it does. Otherwise we're just going for all mods now. SPEAKER_08 00:41:22:260 - 00:41:26:699 Do we want to let the server continue and are we going to solve our problems internally? Yes or no? SPEAKER_03 00:41:26:900 - 00:41:29:159 I would really do that in DM, honestly. SPEAKER_06 00:41:29:239 - 00:41:30:380 I would do that in DM, because there are SPEAKER_03 00:41:30:380 - 00:41:32:000 enough people who do want it back. SPEAKER_06 00:41:32:179 - 00:41:36:199 No, but people need to know if the server is continuing. SPEAKER_03 00:41:36:400 - 00:41:41:960 Of course, that's true, but if you're going to write all that mixed up now, those kinds of things don't mean much. SPEAKER_06 00:41:41:980 - 00:41:43:480 There are like six mods online. SPEAKER_03 00:41:43:760 - 00:41:51:880 I know, but if half says yes and the other half says no... and you have a discussion with it, what good is it to us? That's more what I mean. There needs to be discussion. SPEAKER_04 00:41:53:099 - 00:41:55:420 It makes me angry that my idea is being shined with now. SPEAKER_07 00:41:55:539 - 00:41:56:559 Farouk, shut your mouth! SPEAKER_06 00:41:57:179 - 00:41:58:639 You have nothing to do with this! SPEAKER_07 00:42:01:940 - 00:42:02:260 Thanks. SPEAKER_04 00:42:02:920 - 00:42:04:000 Yeah, you should do that later. SPEAKER_07 00:42:04:059 - 00:42:06:000 That's been said 600 times already. SPEAKER_04 00:42:06:000 - 00:42:08:000 I want to mention, SPEAKER_07 00:42:08:000 - 00:42:10:000 I'm not 100% sure anymore where the SPEAKER_04 00:42:10:000 - 00:42:12:000 idea of political quarantine opt-in came from. SPEAKER_07 00:42:12:000 - 00:42:14:000 If it came from you, Vroeg, then SPEAKER_06 00:42:14:000 - 00:42:16:000 super good. Thank you. SPEAKER_07 00:42:16:000 - 00:42:18:000 Then we'll do this in moderation matters. Let's solve this first SPEAKER_06 00:42:18:000 - 00:42:20:000 solve. SPEAKER_04 00:42:20:000 - 00:42:22:000 Would you maybe add me back then? SPEAKER_07 00:42:22:000 - 00:42:24:000 Yeah, of course. I would do that. SPEAKER_06 00:42:24:000 - 00:42:26:000 Thank you! SPEAKER_02 00:42:26:000 - 00:42:31:000 I wanted to tell you that I'm really getting a lot from many people, many buddies now. SPEAKER_06 00:42:31:000 - 00:42:33:000 Are you letting this slide? SPEAKER_02 00:42:33:000 - 00:42:34:000 I have so much too. SPEAKER_03 00:42:34:000 - 00:42:37:000 No, but people are shit-talking anyway now. SPEAKER_04 00:42:37:000 - 00:42:38:000 That's not true. SPEAKER_03 00:42:38:000 - 00:42:40:000 I'm also getting DMs. SPEAKER_06 00:42:40:000 - 00:42:42:000 There are enough mass donations, extra servers, it's not about all that. SPEAKER_03 00:42:42:000 - 00:42:51:019 Everyone's being shit-talked, even I'm just being fucking shit-talked now. But it doesn't matter. Just solve it among yourselves, because this isn't going to work anymore. SPEAKER_06 00:42:51:179 - 00:43:03:179 I think we need to accept now that we simply don't have an answer yet. Then we can just state that we as mods will continue somewhere else. And that hopefully later in the evening an answer will be ready. SPEAKER_02 00:43:04:760 - 00:43:12:639 Let's see. But you know what else? If we decide to continue. There will still be various voices. About what people do and don't want. SPEAKER_04 00:43:13:039 - 00:43:41:480 No, but that's why I want to make one proposal. And that is. We'll go here ourselves as admin slash mod. Maybe with Dago included. Just talk about it here in a separate chat. We'll open this survey. But at the end of the evening... or maybe tomorrow if there's time for it... we'll do a buddy ping... and we'll make it clear to everyone in the voice chat... publicly... what our new policy is, what we're going to do. So that everyone has an equal chance... to know what we're going to do. SPEAKER_06 00:43:41:840 - 00:43:47:539 And so you're not last on your word. But then there's still no agreement from the buddies, because that's going to last. SPEAKER_04 00:43:48:659 - 00:43:53:460 Still, I do want the buddies to eventually know what we've discussed and what we're going to do. SPEAKER_03 00:43:53:960 - 00:43:55:760 Yes, but you can just SPEAKER_06 00:43:55:760 - 00:43:57:599 give a TLDR of that. That's really not a problem. SPEAKER_03 00:43:57:760 - 00:43:58:619 No, exactly. SPEAKER_04 00:43:59:000 - 00:44:08:039 But still, I just want that to be publicly announced and not kept secret. Good. Well, but you should just SPEAKER_03 00:44:08:039 - 00:44:37:679 do that. I don't think there's much point in that anymore. That's important for now. So I would, yes, I'm taking a bit of the lead, I know that, but I notice it's becoming a shit-flinging contest if I don't say anything at this point. Thank you. So, I would say, people who are in here now who aren't mod-bound, accept that it's still unknown at this point. People are working on it, I guess. And hopefully an answer will come. Can I say that an answer will hopefully come? Yes. SPEAKER_06 00:44:38:679 - 00:44:39:780 An answer will come. SPEAKER_03 00:44:40:139 - 00:44:41:820 We can set everything up from SPEAKER_06 00:44:41:820 - 00:44:43:500 we'll continue in this call. SPEAKER_03 00:44:43:500 - 00:44:46:480 Yes, but who will post that? SPEAKER_02 00:44:48:719 - 00:44:52:900 That's a good question, but I don't think there should be too much pressure on that right now. SPEAKER_03 00:44:53:019 - 00:45:01:099 Because the problem is, if I were to post that, half of the people would think I've gone off the rails again or whatever. SPEAKER_02 00:45:01:579 - 00:45:01:559 That's a fair point, but I don't think that should be discussed here. SPEAKER_03 00:45:04:119 - 00:45:04:500 That's a fair point, but I don't think that should be discussed here. SPEAKER_02 00:45:05:840 - 00:45:08:019 I think it doesn't matter who does it. SPEAKER_03 00:45:08:420 - 00:45:09:500 Two otherwise along the day SPEAKER_02 00:45:09:500 - 00:45:11:179 if everyone's going to do it like that. SPEAKER_01 00:45:11:480 - 00:45:13:260 Well, then you're really messing it up. SPEAKER_02 00:45:14:739 - 00:45:15:940 Then everything goes up in flames. SPEAKER_01 00:45:19:480 - 00:45:21:900 Yeah, no, but I get your point. But that's something that SPEAKER_03 00:45:21:900 - 00:45:23:199 shouldn't be discussed here. SPEAKER_01 00:45:24:260 - 00:45:26:559 But can I also say... SPEAKER_03 00:45:26:559 - 00:45:30:840 I've also received a lot of DMs from people saying... SPEAKER_01 00:45:30:840 - 00:45:32:059 It's over, Mike, you know. SPEAKER_03 00:45:33:579 - 00:45:35:460 Go away. Or delete the server. SPEAKER_08 00:45:35:940 - 00:45:38:159 I've even received some DMs saying... SPEAKER_03 00:45:38:159 - 00:45:41:000 Yo, older here, we got you, et cetera. SPEAKER_01 00:45:41:380 - 00:45:42:760 But fuck that, that's not necessary. SPEAKER_03 00:45:42:760 - 00:45:45:039 No, I just want to know that SPEAKER_02 00:45:45:039 - 00:45:47:900 there are certainly still SPEAKER_03 00:45:47:900 - 00:45:49:639 factors present that SPEAKER_02 00:45:49:639 - 00:45:51:760 have deliberately from the beginning SPEAKER_03 00:45:51:760 - 00:45:53:519 imprinted this. Yes, SPEAKER_02 00:45:53:519 - 00:45:55:699 then we need to, look, okay. And there SPEAKER_03 00:45:55:699 - 00:45:56:380 must SPEAKER_02 00:45:56:380 - 00:45:59:460 be action taken against that. SPEAKER_03 00:45:59:960 - 00:46:01:360 Under the mole. Those people SPEAKER_02 00:46:01:360 - 00:46:03:059 can leave the server. SPEAKER_03 00:46:03:119 - 00:46:06:420 Yes, that should have happened much earlier only SPEAKER_02 00:46:06:420 - 00:46:13:139 I'm unfortunately yes if you held dear fucking moth cages now on this is only going to seem but SPEAKER_03 00:46:13:139 - 00:46:22:980 I hope that whatever comes out is respected by the buddies as it actually SPEAKER_06 00:46:22:980 - 00:46:25:780 has always happened until a few SPEAKER_02 00:46:25:780 - 00:46:27:179 weeks ago, a few months. SPEAKER_03 00:46:28:239 - 00:46:29:920 You know what my main thing still SPEAKER_06 00:46:29:920 - 00:46:31:960 isn't anymore? And that's difficult, SPEAKER_03 00:46:32:059 - 00:46:33:900 I know, and a full SPEAKER_02 00:46:33:900 - 00:46:35:739 democracy is almost impossible SPEAKER_03 00:46:35:739 - 00:46:38:000 in this situation, but I ultimately think SPEAKER_02 00:46:38:000 - 00:46:39:500 that we ourselves SPEAKER_03 00:46:39:500 - 00:46:41:679 should make proposals for the buddies, and that they SPEAKER_02 00:46:41:679 - 00:46:43:699 vote on them themselves, and that we together SPEAKER_03 00:46:43:699 - 00:46:56:920 just go along with what they decide, because ultimately it's for them. Of course. I have an idea. Replace the protest area SPEAKER_02 00:46:56:920 - 00:47:06:119 with a public vote and if new issues need to be discussed by our staff, Jury has made a very nice email address SPEAKER_03 00:47:06:119 - 00:47:08:280 Or you can always SPEAKER_02 00:47:08:280 - 00:47:09:980 DM someone, or a SPEAKER_04 00:47:09:980 - 00:47:11:559 mod member, or a staff member, or whatever. SPEAKER_02 00:47:12:179 - 00:47:23:340 So no more public complaint area where people can exert group pressure and spectator commentary, because that's all negativity. SPEAKER_04 00:47:24:480 - 00:47:28:380 In principle, you're saying petitions are open from now on. Yeah, hello. SPEAKER_03 00:47:29:440 - 00:47:30:519 Can we please SPEAKER_04 00:47:30:519 - 00:47:31:880 discuss this in botcamp, because I keep... SPEAKER_02 00:47:31:880 - 00:47:34:579 Really quick. I know SPEAKER_04 00:47:34:579 - 00:47:36:280 not if this is a good idea, but the buddies want to SPEAKER_02 00:47:36:280 - 00:47:38:179 propose that Stamkoop opens now. SPEAKER_06 00:47:38:440 - 00:47:39:219 Yes, good idea. SPEAKER_03 00:47:40:059 - 00:47:42:219 No, I would say no, because then it becomes SPEAKER_08 00:47:42:219 - 00:47:44:300 one big speculation circle jerk, and then SPEAKER_06 00:47:44:300 - 00:47:45:000 it becomes an echo chamber. SPEAKER_02 00:47:48:900 - 00:47:49:280 I think the server stays closed until at least tomorrow morning. SPEAKER_04 00:47:50:659 - 00:47:58:239 I don't think that's a problem. I still just want that ultimately buddies can agree with our so-called... Yes, but... SPEAKER_07 00:47:58:239 - 00:47:59:300 Oh yeah, yeah, absolutely, absolutely. SPEAKER_04 00:47:59:320 - 00:48:00:179 Yes, of course. SPEAKER_07 00:48:01:360 - 00:48:06:480 That also means that if buddies were to say we want Mike gone, that Mike also leaves. SPEAKER_04 00:48:06:480 - 00:48:13:860 Yes, certainly. But if people want that, then I hope they think about more than just the SPEAKER_07 00:48:13:860 - 00:48:17:199 past two months. That's up to them. SPEAKER_04 00:48:17:199 - 00:48:23:739 Come on, guys. Shall I say we're going to Dago's place for a bit? SPEAKER_07 00:48:23:739 - 00:48:26:260 Please do, because nobody's listening. SPEAKER_04 00:48:26:260 - 00:48:26:960 No, really. SPEAKER_07 00:48:29:380 - 00:48:30:440 Varo, no. SPEAKER_04 00:48:31:440 - 00:48:32:579 Just go to Modcall. SPEAKER_07 00:48:33:079 - 00:48:35:239 Guys, I can't get into Modcall, though. SPEAKER_02 00:48:36:300 - 00:48:37:360 I don't even know where... SPEAKER_04 00:48:37:360 - 00:48:39:400 I can move you. SPEAKER_02 00:48:39:719 - 00:48:40:280 There we go. SPEAKER_04 00:48:43:280 - 00:48:43:960 Well, Buddies. SPEAKER_02 00:48:45:000 - 00:48:50:000 A lot of you are muted. SPEAKER_04 00:48:50:000 - 00:48:51:000 I'm not. SPEAKER_03 00:48:51:000 - 00:48:55:000 I'll possibly go with the... SPEAKER_07 00:48:55:000 - 00:48:59:000 Haha, I'm not muted. SPEAKER_01 00:48:59:000 - 00:49:01:000 You shouldn't miss me yet. SPEAKER_08 00:49:01:000 - 00:49:03:000 What words will you ask? SPEAKER_01 00:49:03:000 - 00:49:11:500 May I recommend all Buddies to stay in this chat, so we can still unmute, mute, thank you. SPEAKER_08 00:49:11:980 - 00:49:13:739 Too bad guys, I wasn't moved. SPEAKER_01 00:49:15:039 - 00:49:15:460 Too bad. SPEAKER_07 00:49:17:000 - 00:49:17:619 One of us. SPEAKER_01 00:49:18:019 - 00:49:21:360 We'll unmute you. I'll let you take turns to continue talking here. SPEAKER_07 00:49:22:380 - 00:49:23:559 We'll give an opinion soon. SPEAKER_01 00:49:25:840 - 00:49:27:059 What a conversation. SPEAKER_04 00:49:28:960 - 00:49:30:260 Why does he have such a big hate for it? SPEAKER_01 00:49:30:260 - 00:49:32:119 He hasn't done anything wrong. SPEAKER_03 00:49:32:199 - 00:49:32:440 Hey! SPEAKER_04 00:49:34:239 - 00:49:35:460 I'm back. SPEAKER_03 00:49:35:960 - 00:49:37:159 Mike hasn't done anything wrong. SPEAKER_06 00:49:39:360 - 00:49:40:099 Freedom! SPEAKER_03 00:49:41:440 - 00:49:42:119 Freedom! SPEAKER_07 00:49:42:860 - 00:49:43:179 Hey! SPEAKER_06 00:50:06:500 - 00:50:08:500 Guys, we need to man the barricades. Guys, what did you think? Hey hey hey hey hey... [repeated many times] Look here. Look, a dive! This is becoming one artistic shit, man. Voa should be like that, you shouldn't do that. SPEAKER_07 00:50:10:500 - 00:50:11:500 Come on, set that then! Come on, set that then! Hey gang! SPEAKER_02 00:50:11:500 - 00:50:13:500 No, that wasn't a good idea, friend. SPEAKER_07 00:50:15:500 - 00:50:17:500 Guys, I had a piece of such a place and then really... SPEAKER_02 00:50:17:500 - 00:50:19:500 ...a server-complete boom. SPEAKER_07 00:50:20:500 - 00:50:21:500 Oh, hello. SPEAKER_03 00:50:21:500 - 00:50:23:500 Shout-out to Boulder! SPEAKER_07 00:50:23:500 - 00:50:25:500 Oh, hello there! SPEAKER_03 00:50:25:500 - 00:50:27:500 Hello!